U.S President: Donald Trump

Originally Posted by passingbat

Flynn's top level security clearance was issued under Obama. If he was so concerned, why didn't he revoke it?

Obama fired Flynn and both Obama and Trump advisors have confirmed Obama advised Trump's transition team not to hire him again.

[passingbat]

Originally Posted by Damien

Obama fired Flynn and both Obama and Trump advisors have confirmed Obama advised Trump's transition team not to hire him again.

Why weren't his security credentials revoked? Politicians can fire people because their views don't align and give 'advice' for political reasons.


If Obama had security doubts about him, he should have requested that the relevant authorities suspend and revaluate his clearance.

[pip08456]

Originally Posted by passingbat

Why weren't his security credentials revoked? Politicians can fire people because their views don't align and give 'advice' for political reasons.


If Obama had security doubts about him, he should have requested that the relevant authorities suspend and revaluate his clearance.

Spot on pb, I've just watched the congressional hearing with ex DNI Clapper and ex NGA Yates.

Obama did hire him and he went through "Advanced" vetting, if he was sacked his security clearence should have been revoked. It didn't happen.

Trump (alledgedly) thought Obama was joking when he said "Don't employ Flynn".

Had his security clearence been withdrawn this fiasco would never have happened.

Originally Posted by passingbat

Why weren't his security credentials revoked? Politicians can fire people because their views don't align and give 'advice' for political reasons.


If Obama had security doubts about him, he should have requested that the relevant authorities suspend and revaluate his clearance.

Because that's not how it works....

Jim Wright, ex-US Navy Chief Warrant Officer, who spent his career in Naval Intelligence, explained it on his FB feed

https://www.facebook.com/Stonekettle...31344410234292

A) There are two parts to this: clearance and access.

Clearance means you've been vetted to see certain levels of classified material. Depending on the level, that vetting process can be very detailed and extensive -- Flynn's level of clearance would be that kind.

Access means you have a need to know. Just because you have a clearance, doesn't mean you get to see everything. I spent more than 20 years with the very highest level of clearance, far above the ordinary even for my particular community. But my access was limited to my area of military responsibility. For example, while I might have full access to foreign intelligence materials, I couldn't access materials on say US Naval nuclear reactor systems. I wasn't a nuke, it wasn't my job, even though I was cleared for material at that level.

One of the most obvious ways to spot a mole in your organization is when somebody with clearance starts seeking information that he has no need to know. See John Walker et al.

B) So, when Flynn left active duty and was no longer employed by the US government, he had NO NEED TO KNOW.

He still had a SECURITY CLEARANCE, but no ACCESS.

Flynn's clearance would have been INACTIVE at the date of his retirement in JPAS (the national security system). And it would stay that way until a certain amount of time had passed, before becoming outdated automatically and expiring. Unless it was renewed by a need to know (i.e. federal employment, or civilian employment under government contract as described in para 4 above).

Unless Flynn did something wrong during that period, there would be no reason for his clearance to be revoked. Or even examined. It would simply sit inactive in JPAS until it expired.

C) A common response to this post, here and on Twitter, is: Yeah, but Obama "renewed" Flynn's clearance in 2016!

No. Wrong.

After Trump won the election, Flynn became the incoming National Security Advisor. His clearance was already in JPAS. But he needed to do another background check (a NACI) because too much time had passed since his last periodic update (typically every 5 years, but for certain levels of access it can be more often). And because as National Security Advisor next to the President, he would need a much more thorough background check than he required as DNI (which was VERY thorough).

Because he was the incoming National Security Advisor and because AT THAT TIME there was no reason not to grant him access, Flynn was given an INTERIM clearance so that he could do his job.

Interim clearance is a temporary clearance typically granted to supposed trustworthy people (which Flynn was at that time), in critical positions, so that they can do their job while the final clearance is processed. Typically limited access is also granted under the interim clearance, just the bare minimum necessary to do a specific job.

In a number of cases, the background check turns up a problem and final clearance is not granted. Interim clearance is normally revoked immediately at that point along with any access. (An example: Wayne Shelby Simmons, Fox's supposed former CIA agent and national security expert. The guy faked his background, and he did it so well that he managed to get a job with a defense contractor as a Terrain Analyst. He was granted an Interim Clearance and sent to Afghanistan -- because we were at war and we needed people. When the background check turned up evidence that Simmons was a fraud, his interim clearance was immediately revoked and he was fired and sent home. He ended up on Fox, but eventually the FBI caught up to him and he was tried and convicted of fraud and sentenced to prison where he is right now).

Granting of Interim clearance is perfectly normal and a necessary part of the process for these kinds of situations. Without it, the government would grind to a stop. More: without an interim clearance, Flynn couldn't have been briefed by the outgoing National Security Advisor -- because when Susan Rice left office, her access was suspended because she no longer had a need to know, she was no longer a federal employee. There has to be some overlap. So, Flynn was given an interim clearance so he could be brought up to speed by Rice.

Flynn was granted interim clearance and access while he updated his security background check, which begins with him filling out an SF-86. Yes, this WAS done under the Obama Administration, but again at that point there was no reason not to.

So, Flynn has an interim clearance and he is now required to update his permanent clearance. And during that process, he failed to disclose foreign contacts.

THAT'S THE PROBLEM. THAT'S THE CRIME, RIGHT THERE. That happened AFTER he was granted the interim clearance.

And when that discrepancy came to light (by now, under the new administration), HIS ACCESS WAS REVOKED and his clearance suspended pending investigation.

At which point he was fired/resigned/what have you and now he NO LONGER HAS A NEED TO KNOW.

[passingbat]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Because that's not how it works....

Jim Wright, ex-US Navy Chief Warrant Officer, who spent his career in Naval Intelligence, explained it on his FB feed

https://www.facebook.com/Stonekettle...31344410234292

Flynn was granted interim clearance and access while he updated his security background check, which begins with him filling out an SF-86. Yes, this WAS done under the Obama Administration, but again at that point there was no reason not to.

So Obama saw no reason not to grant interim clearance, but warned Trump against him. That suggests Obama had doubts. So why did he allow interim clearance?

Originally Posted by passingbat

So Obama saw no reason not to grant interim clearance, but warned Trump against him. That suggests Obama had doubts. So why did he allow interim clearance?

Presumably because Trump insisted and he was the best Presisent. Look I don't want Trump as President but he is and he is responsible for who he hires. You can't spend the next 4 years we excusing Trump of all his mistakes but asking why Obama didn't stop him.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Damien

Presumably because Trump insisted and he was the best Presisent. Look I don't want Trump as President but he is and he is responsible for who he hires. You can't spend the next 4 years we excusing Trump of all his mistakes but asking why Obama didn't stop him.

On the other hand you can't keep blaming Trump for stuff others are also guilty of or responsible for without acknowledging that.

[passingbat]

Originally Posted by Damien

Presumably because Trump insisted and he was the best Presisent. Look I don't want Trump as President but he is and he is responsible for who he hires. You can't spend the next 4 years we excusing Trump of all his mistakes but asking why Obama didn't stop him.

Obama obviously had doubts, therefore he should have investigated before granting interim clearance.

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by passingbat

Obama obviously had doubts, therefore he should have investigated before granting interim clearance.

Always Obama's fault; that could be Trump's epitaph.

Originally Posted by Osem

On the other hand you can't keep blaming Trump for stuff others are also guilty of or responsible for without acknowledging that.

How is Obama reasonable for the hiring of Flynn? He himself fired him, he warned Trump, other people both within the Obama and the Trump administrations advised again. He was hired anyway.

The person who is reasonable for the staffing of the Trump White House is Trump. The person reasonable for who Trump directly appointed as his NSA is Trump. Was he provided with the information on Flynn? Yes.

A few weeks ago Trump was blaming Obama, erroneously, for tapping his phones. Now it's Obama's fault that he didn't investigate enough (even though he did warn Trump).

---------- Post added at 18:46 ---------- Previous post was at 18:42 ----------

Originally Posted by passingbat

Obama obviously had doubts, therefore he should have investigated before granting interim clearance.

He was being investigated, but it seems the worries hadn't surfaced at the time the interim clearance was given, the investigation did turn up worrying information which Trump was provided with.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Damien

How is Obama reasonable for the hiring of Flynn? He himself fired him, he warned Trump, other people both within the Obama and the Trump administrations advised again. He was hired anyway.

The person who is reasonable for the staffing of the Trump White House is the Trump. The person reasonable for who Trump directly appointed as his NSA is Trump. Was he provided with the information on Flynn? Yes.

A few weeks ago Trump was blaming Obama, erroneously, for tapping his phones. Now it's Obama's fault that he didn't investigate enough (even though he did warn Trump).

I'm not talking about Flynn and didn't mention his name.

You posted this:

You can't spend the next 4 years we excusing Trump of all his mistakes but asking why Obama didn't stop him.

and I agree, but was making a general counter point that rather too many people have been criticising Trump for all sorts of stuff he has or hasn't done that would apply equally to his opponents but without mentioning that fact.

Originally Posted by Osem

I'm not talking about Flynn and didn't mention his name.

You posted this:



and I agree, but was making a general counter point that rather too many people have been criticising Trump for all sorts of stuff he has or hasn't done that would apply equally to his opponents but without mentioning that fact.

::

Originally Posted by passingbat

Obama obviously had doubts, therefore he should have investigated before granting interim clearance.

Obama doesn't grant anything - the Government system does, and has been previously been explained, interim access is given to incoming appointees to enable a handover.

Because he was the incoming National Security Advisor and because AT THAT TIME there was no reason not to grant him access, Flynn was given an INTERIM clearance so that he could do his job.

Interim clearance is a temporary clearance typically granted to supposed trustworthy people (which Flynn was at that time), in critical positions, so that they can do their job while the final clearance is processed. Typically limited access is also granted under the interim clearance, just the bare minimum necessary to do a specific job.

I find it amusing that you're blaming Obama for Trump's pick not filling in his Security clearance forms properly.

[Arthurgray50@blu]

Just been announced that DT has saved the FFBI director. Is this so that Trump can 'rule' everyone.

Probably the FBI has found something on Trump re the Russians.

---------- Post added at 23:02 ---------- Previous post was at 23:01 ----------

That should have read SACKED the FBI Director

[adzii_nufc]

James Comey deserved to be sacked months ago, he's a clown.

They've found nothing Arthur, stop clutching at straws, the man is an absolute clown, an absolute master at botching everything he touches then playing the idiot in front of the oversight. The only surprise is how long it's taken, I genuinely thought he'd be removed as soon as Trump hit office.

I've forever in this thread and past ones maintained that Comey is an idiot. No one really knows which side he's been batting for and to be honest I don't think he actually knows himself.