Hamas Israel War

Originally Posted by Pierre

Iran, enjoy the wine.



I’m just surmising you’re getting grief for a pro-Palestinian stance that is impacting your right to free speech. Well I’m sure you’ll get a more sympathetic ear in an Islamic state. Just remember to wear your hijab.

That’s the problem with making assumptions without context or confirmation - I read Ms Ntl’s post to mean she was getting flak for not speaking up in support of the Palestinians…

Originally Posted by Ms NTL View Post
I no longer answer my phone....I get emails from both sides like this

I don't understand how you can sleep at night , get on with your day or feel okay to look yourself in the mirror knowing you will go down in history as those who didn't speak up with every power and platform you have .

You gave up before you started , you didn't even have the backbone to research and find out what is morally right . Rather like a coward you have believed the very propaganda that you taught us to dissect and analyse, critically review and strategically make educated and academic opinions on.

Most of it, is anonymous. I worked in Haifa and Tel Aviv (few weeks every year). Colleagues from USA, Canada, Arab countries, Israel, pressure me to make a statement under my work's name ("platform"), which I am not allowed to do ("inappropriate behaviour") or willing to do.

And I read the last part to mean they weren’t allowed to, but also didn’t want to, make supporting statements for any side.

Only Ms Ntl knows, neither of us do…

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Pierre

Egypt don’t want them, no other Islamic state bordering want them.

Ethnic cleansing…this is from 5 years ago but still very pertinent
https://youtu.be/35eEljsSQfc?si=1DvidO77lkc6sZLp

I posted that on the day of the atrocities by Hamas, it was an emotional response after watching the initial videos being circulated and the reports coming in, but I don’t shy away from those comments. Hamas is an evil death cult that should be wiped from the Earth, it manages to survive by wrapping itself with the population of Gaza

It’s war, it’s survival, will innocents die? Yes, because it’s war, because it’s survival.

Do I want that? No. But it’s not about what us here nice and relatively safe in the U.K. want, is it?

I appreciate this recognition and providing further context. I do take back my comment in that case.

It isn’t about what we want, of course, but in both sides of a war there’s emotionally involved people that need direction and support to do the right thing from outsiders. It does indeed appear that America are trying to take on this role but Israel are backing that Biden fears the pro-Israel lobby at home. Blinken’s impotence at the start of this is indicative.

However he is asking that Israel take civilians into account; an odd request if he confidently believes they are.

---------- Post added at 22:30 ---------- Previous post was at 22:27 ----------

Originally Posted by Paul

Nice bit of BS - but thats not what you said at all.

Another vague response that really answers nothing and does not support your statement (and also, read it again, I dont think it even makes sense).

If more people oppose flying a flag in solidarity than flying it; I think it’s reasonable to say that there’s little sympathy. Or at least less than more - I was merely providing Ms NTL assurance in that regard.

Other people can take a different view but it’s exactly the type of virtue signalling cost nothing action that should easily have the support of a majority if they believe their cause to be just.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Hugh

Only Ms Ntl knows, neither of us do…

Correct, but the post was made with a link in it to a story about a footballer that had lost his job for posting pro-Palestinian rhetoric…..

[Ms NTL]

Originally Posted by Pierre

Iran, enjoy the wine.

Checked, wine is not allowed.

Originally Posted by Pierre

Well I’m sure you’ll get a more sympathetic ear in an Islamic state. Just remember to wear your hijab.

Checked, cross-dressing is not allowed.

[Itshim]

Originally Posted by Ms NTL;

Checked, cross-dressing is not allowed.

I also thought you were female.

---------- Post added at 11:10 ---------- Previous post was at 11:08 ----------

An aside , if the IRA started up again, should the UK bomb the republic as Israel is in Gaza

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by Itshim

I also thought you were female.

---------- Post added at 11:10 ---------- Previous post was at 11:08 ----------

An aside , if the IRA started up again, should the UK bomb the republic as Israel is in Gaza

What's the matter with you? The IRA usually gave warnings of a bomb; they didn't mutilate and murder children, etc. And, above all, they were of a culture that could negotiate.

In not so many years ahead, it is entirely possible that NI will become part of the Republic (and then there will be another problem to sort out).

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Itshim

if the IRA started up again, should the UK bomb the republic as Israel is in Gaza

You’re comparing apples and decapitated heads.

[Ms NTL]

Originally Posted by Itshim

I also thought you were female.

Pierre was on a roll: He wanted to flatten Gaza, told me to convert to Islam, move to Iran and wear a hijab.

I am male, agnostic (I cannot convert to anything), I have no intention of moving to Persia, and the hijab will clash with my beard.

[Sephiroth]

Originally Posted by Ms NTL

Pierre was on a roll: He wanted to flatten Gaza, told me to convert to Islam, move to Iran and wear a hijab.

I am male, agnostic (I cannot convert to anything), I have no intention of moving to Persia, and the hijab will clash with my beard.

Damn.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Ms NTL

Pierre was on a roll: He wanted to flatten Gaza, told me to convert to Islam, move to Iran and wear a hijab.

I am male, agnostic (I cannot convert to anything), I have no intention of moving to Persia, and the hijab will clash with my beard.

Yeah, well maybe if you didn’t call yourself Ms NTL, you’d be oh so clever.

It’s like me calling myself Susan then sniggering when somebody thinks I’m female………oh the fools.

I still stand by all the items on my roll. I reckon you’d still suit a hijab.

Can we get back to discussing the topic instead of each other.

A point worth noting this morning when considering any information released by Hamas:

A senior Hamas leader has refused to acknowledge that his group killed civilians in Israel, claiming only conscripts were targeted.
Moussa Abu Marzouk told the BBC that "women, children and civilians were exempt" from Hamas's attacks.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67321241

Mouzak and his crew are profoundly unserious people if they think they can continue to claim “it didn’t happen, and it wasn’t us anyway it was those armed Hamas people” even while journalists are playing back videos of the massacres of children right in their faces.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by Chris

A point worth noting this morning when considering any information released by Hamas:



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67321241

Mouzak and his crew are profoundly unserious people if they think they can continue to claim “it didn’t happen, and it wasn’t us anyway it was those armed Hamas people” even while journalists are playing back videos of the massacres of children right in their faces.

This is why I don't understand why the BBC and MSM, blindly report death figures from the Gaza Health Ministry aka Hamas.

I'm not belittling what's going on, or reducing it to a numbers game. but what was the last count 10,000 + 3,500 children dead. I mean of course it wouldn't play to their advantage to over inflate the figures to put more pressure on Israel would it?

[jfman]

Originally Posted by Chris

A point worth noting this morning when considering any information released by Hamas:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67321241

Mouzak and his crew are profoundly unserious people if they think they can continue to claim “it didn’t happen, and it wasn’t us anyway it was those armed Hamas people” even while journalists are playing back videos of the massacres of children right in their faces.

I’ll file it next to the IDF claiming they don’t target civilians with my photos of all the hospitals, refugee camps and churches that have been bombed. Alongside whole neighbourhoods razed to the ground.

I trust you aren’t using this to dispute the headline figure of civilian casualties, women and children killed? If anything even the Israeli’s think it’s an undercount.

---------- Post added at 08:35 ---------- Previous post was at 08:32 ----------

Originally Posted by Pierre

This is why I don't understand why the BBC and MSM, blindly report death figures from the Gaza Health Ministry aka Hamas.

I'm not belittling what's going on, or reducing it to a numbers game. but what was the last count 10,000 + 3,500 children dead. I mean of course it wouldn't play to their advantage to over inflate the figures to put more pressure on Israel would it?

Of course it could be that it’s the only health ministry they have. There’s been little indication they’ve fudged the figures over the years.

Even Israeli sources are quoting 20,000 killed, and US sources questioning whether the Israeli actions are even making a dent in Hamas capability.

It’s more likely the BBC and others are using “Hamas run” to give Israel that cover to dispute the figure, which it appears they don’t even bother to do.

By anyone’s count the Israeli’s have killed more civilians - and far more children - in a month than Russia’s special military operation in Ukraine has in around a year and three quarters. An armed conflict that has saw Russia secure 20% of Ukrainian territory, something around the size of the UK. Gaza is a mere city being obliterated with no regard for the civilians living there.

Originally Posted by jfman

I’ll file it next to the IDF claiming they don’t target civilians with my photos of all the hospitals, refugee camps and churches that have been bombed. Alongside whole neighbourhoods razed to the ground.

I trust you aren’t using this to dispute the headline figure of civilian casualties, women and children killed? If anything even the Israeli’s think it’s an undercount.

---------- Post added at 08:35 ---------- Previous post was at 08:32 ----------



Of course it could be that it’s the only health ministry they have. There’s been little indication they’ve fudged the figures over the years.

Even Israeli sources are quoting 20,000 killed, and US sources questioning whether the Israeli actions are even making a dent in Hamas capability.

It’s more likely the BBC and others are using “Hamas run” to give Israel that cover to dispute the figure, which it appears they don’t even bother to do.

By anyone’s count the Israeli’s have killed more civilians - and far more children - in a month than Russia’s special military operation in Ukraine has in around a year and three quarters. An armed conflict that has saw Russia secure 20% of Ukrainian territory, something around the size of the UK. Gaza is a mere city being obliterated with no regard for the civilians living there.

Actually I was using it mostly to nudge the thread back on to some relevant discussion, and because Marzouk happens to be on the front page this morning.

The apposite phrase right now would seem to be a plague on both their houses. Hamas is a murderous terrorist organisation with no interest in behaving according to international norms even while it presents itself as the legitimate government of Gaza. ‘Hamas run’ seems to me to be a well-calibrated phrase allowing the BBC to report what it says while allowing the possibility that it might not be reliable.

And there is no sense in which Israel’s response can be considered proportionate or strategic. It’s straight up vengeance with no regard for what comes next. I note this morning they’re now talking about taking on security responsibility for Gaza once this is over, which sounds like they’re preparing for occupation but are unable to call a spade a spade. If they go through with that, they’ll make Belfast 1972 look like a shining beacon of tolerance and respect by comparison.