Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !

[OLD BOY]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Agreed if anyone had actually said that. They haven't.

I was just explaining the way the remainers seem to want to operate. Of course, they will not actually say it, but try to foil Brexit, they will.

Originally Posted by Osem

Don't fret. We won't be complaining but we might remind you how much worse off we'd have been inside the EU when it finally implodes.

Although that prospect does seem less likely than it did even a year ago.

Originally Posted by pip08456

Care to explain this then?



So much for experts!

Link.

Part of the problem with science stories in the press is they report findings of individual studies as if they're breakthroughs. There have been plenty of health stories ("Red Wine is good for you!") that are based on shaky or incomplete research that get overpromoted by a excitable press - also see every 'miracle' cancer cure - and then later found to be baseless leading to sneering from those very papers which promoted it in the first place.

But still they go on and because of these experts we know about the risk of smoking, we have dramatically reduced cancer rates and even wiped out diseases. It just takes time, false starts and very smart people.

[denphone]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

Except that an opinion that says the vote was wrong so we'll have another one, and then the best of three, is not being democratic!

Crikey in your world free speech would be frowned upon unless it agrees with your view but l can assure you until l have my last breath OB l won't be short of a opinion or two whether people like it or not...

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Damien

The latest one is do we stay a member of Euratom as the government says no: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017...aty-allies-eu/ This is a treaty that allows joint research, smooth transport of nuclear materials and parts and so on.

This was never mentioned in the referendum. Even the campaign manager of Leave is joining those in the nuclear industry and scientists in thinking this is stupid.

https://twitter.com/odysseanproject/...54037956718593

And this the problem with the 'Brexit means Brexit' line and the 'we know what we voted for' response to any concerns about any approach in how we leave. We're deciding the future of our membership in a pan-European nuclear agreement based on a 52%-48% answer to a question which had little to do with how we manage nuclear research. So at the moment we're pulling out of a working agreement against the advice of almost everyone connected to the industry because Brexit means Brexit.

In fairness, May's government has ignored every industry representation (except tactically underwriting some guarantees to Nissan) so it just seems to have treated the nuclear industry the same way it would financial services, etc. This is coming back to bite it. The influential Evening Standard has a headline piece today warning that leaving Euratom could threaten the supply of vital imported radioactive isotopes used to treat cancer patients and that some Tory MPs are rebelling over this.
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/re...-a3584076.html

I think you will have a very hard job convincing people that they didn't know what they voted for when they voted leave, Damien although your evidence supports this. The Aaron Banks cue card reply will say the same applies to voting Remain.

[denphone]

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

I was just explaining the way the remainers seem to want to operate. Of course, they will not actually say it, but try to foil Brexit, they will.

A small minority but not l or many other remainers.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by denphone

A small minority but not l or many other remainers.

The closest to Old Boy's conspiracy theory is the Liberal Democrat's request to give people a vote in 2019 on the deal with the EU and staying a member, although that's not necessarily an option. That's nowhere near Old Boy's conspiracy theory though but it's the closest.

[pip08456]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

Agreed if anyone had actually said that. They haven't.

Aren't the LD's pushing for a vote on whatever deal is agreed first????

With the growing problems within the EU atm mainly immigration and the southern financial nightmare I'd say in the last year the EU has moved closer to collapse or a reduction in member states which would be a disaster of a different magnitude. Add in that anti EU feeling is growing within all member states and depending how organised they become could start impacting the EU within the next five to ten years only a fool would talk in terms of the EU continuing longterm. The establishment in the EU has demonstrated time and again that they are at best slow to address issues and often just disregard them such was the attitude when cameron went to try and get meaningful reform and instead came back with nothing of real worth.

Quite a few EU politicians felt quite chuffed with themselves sending cameron back with nothing i wonder how chuffed they felt after we voted to leave and the prospect of no trade deal with the UK being gauranteed. Whilst remainers always want to frame the debate about what we in the UK will lose or pay more in the future they forget we trade many goods with the EU that if no deal is reached will impact various EU member states. It's become default with some to talk about the UK as a nation that does nothing and was only able to keep going because of our membership of the EU and their generosity hard to believe the UK was the second net contributor to the EU.

There are many models that have been prepared and more that will be prepared and not all are negative but no doubt the focus will be on the one's that are negative as that suits the tired old tactic of scare and exaggerate that's been the remain sides only tactic thus far. I've still not seen an explanation for how the UK being able to trade with the rest of the world on our terms will be less economically beneficial then continuing to mainly trade with twenty seven nations the terms not ours to control. This isn't and never has been a one side is completely correct and the other completely wrong issue for the UK and lets hope that better people then any of us on this forum deal with things better.

This debate on this and many other forums is now totally pointless as it's mainly the die hards from both sides waging the same tired arguments and propaganda and being honest both sides have enough with their heads up their backsides that there is no new ground to be covered. I'm going to now do the only beneficial thing anyone can do and leave the debate as I'm not convinced by the constant barrage of negativity that now exists on both sides and again being honest lifes too damn short to keep taking part in a daily bout of depression so have at it.

[pip08456]

I never thought I'd say this but Charles André Joseph Marie de Gaulle is my hero. He did his best to keep us out!

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Damien

[B]Although that prospect does seem less likely than it did even a year ago.

Not from where I'm sitting. They've done precious little to sort out the fundamental problems affecting the banking sector, Greek debt, uncontrolled migration, huge unemployment etc. etc.

There also seems to be some doubt abput the veracity of Spanish economic data:

http://www.express.co.uk/finance/cit...y-Dijsselbloem

Now where have we heard that before? Greece wasn't it...

[passingbat]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

The influential Evening Standard.

Personally I'm waiting for the dust to settle before commenting too much.

But, "The influential Evening Standard"? Are you serious? Isn't that the newspaper now edited by Brexit doom and gloom king, and Dodgy Dave's mate, Georgie boy?

They have a right to a biased view, but understand where the Editor is coming from, and it aint a balanced view point.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Osem

Not from where I'm sitting. They've done precious little to sort out the fundamental problems affecting the banking sector, Greek debt, uncontrolled migration, huge unemployment etc. etc.

There also seems to be some doubt abput the veracity of Spanish economic data:

http://www.express.co.uk/finance/cit...y-Dijsselbloem

Now where have we heard that before? Greece wasn't it...

I would imagine back in April as that's the date of the article.
At the moment, the recovery in the Eurozone is the surprise story of 2017. https://identityspace.wordpress.com/...story-of-2017/

---------- Post added at 23:28 ---------- Previous post was at 23:26 ----------

Originally Posted by passingbat

Personally I'm waiting for the dust to settle before commenting too much.

But, "The influential Evening Standard"? Are you serious? Isn't that the newspaper now edited by Brexit doom and gloom king, and Dodgy Dave's mate, Georgie boy?

They have a right to a biased view, but understand where the Editor is coming from, and it aint a balanced view point.

It may be edited by six-jobs George but it's still highly influential and apparently thriving under his editorship.

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

I would imagine back in April as that's the date of the article.
At the moment, the recovery in the Eurozone is the surprise story of 2017. https://identityspace.wordpress.com/...story-of-2017/

---------- Post added at 23:28 ---------- Previous post was at 23:26 ----------


It may be edited by six-jobs George but it's still highly influential and apparently thriving under his editorship.

Where did you get that fact, from another blog ?

You never learn blogs are just opinions. If I lacked maturity, I'd be suggesting to Osem, that we should perhaps have drink every time you link to a blog.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Mick

Where did you get that fact, from another blog ?

You never learn blogs are just opinions. If I lacked maturity, I'd be suggesting to Osem, that we should perhaps have drink every time you link to a blog.

I fear you'd be pretty thirsty Mick as my links - aside from the rare one - are to the mainstream media.

Originally Posted by Osem

Not from where I'm sitting. They've done precious little to sort out the fundamental problems affecting the banking sector, Greek debt, uncontrolled migration, huge unemployment etc. etc.

There also seems to be some doubt abput the veracity of Spanish economic data:

http://www.express.co.uk/finance/cit...y-Dijsselbloem

Now where have we heard that before? Greece wasn't it...

Ok but the imminent collapse of the Eurozone has been imminent for a long while.