Huge fire at West London tower block

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40380584

The Grenfell Tower fire in London started in a fridge freezer, and outside cladding failed safety tests, police say.

Insulation on the building also failed tests and the Metropolitan Police will consider manslaughter charges.

Seventy-nine people are feared dead after the blaze destroyed 151 homes in the Kensington tower block.

Police said the fire had not been started deliberately.

[Pierre]

Manslaughter charges against whom?

The fridge manufacturers?

There is, as far as I can tell, been no evidence of a crime committed as yet.

I just watched that press briefing by the MET spokesperson, when she revealed about the manslaughter charges, a colleague of hers said "That's enough", and the briefing ended quite abrupt. I was thinking perhaps she revealed something more than she should.

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by Damien

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40380584

151 homes? There were 127 flats. 120 in the original layout and 7 added as part of the renovations.

Flammability is NOT the issue. By themselves the products are known to be flammable. The REAL issue is whether any fire is contained to the one flat and not spreading to others. That is meant to be the emphasis in the design.

“The issue is about compartmentalisation,” he says. “Whatever cladding system you use, you have to incorporate fire stops at the line of each floorplate and every party wall around a dwelling to prevent fire from spreading up the facade. The current regulations are robust enough, but they have to be properly followed, and the architects drawings properly executed on site.

Be interesting to know if anybody has done tests using PIR insulation boards and comparing FR(which still contain PE) and PE type external cladding boards. Either they would show that selecting FR or PE would make little difference, or that only FR boards should be used with PIR insulation.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Mick

I just watched that press briefing by the MET spokesperson, when she revealed about the manslaughter charges, a colleague of hers said "That's enough", and the briefing ended quite abrupt. I was thinking perhaps she revealed something more than she should.

I didn't hear that but must admit, what I heard from her on the radio didn't sound very confident.

I imagine the police won't be wanting anyone connected with their investigations to be unfairly accused or will not want to say/do anything which might compromise a future legal case. That's standard practice so if this was a bit of a lapse her senior officers will be wanting to take it up with her urgently.

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by Pierre

Manslaughter charges against whom?

The fridge manufacturers?

There is, as far as I can tell, been no evidence of a crime committed as yet.

could be the cladding being inferior and dangerous but could that be proved as the cause ?

the fridge set on fire what combustible's where in the vicinity could it be user error .

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by papa smurf

could be the cladding being inferior and dangerous but could that be proved as the cause ?

the fridge set on fire what combustible's where in the vicinity could it be user error .

Inferior?

Celotex RS5000
Premium performance polyisocyanurate (PIR) solution for use in rainscreen cladding systems. Developed specifically to enhance the thermal performance of external cladding constructions, RS5000 is the first PIR insulation board to achieve BR 135 approval and therefore is acceptable for use in buildings above 18 m in height.

If the images on ITV news are anything to go by, the design or installation of any insulation was at fault. One of the buildings shown, had insulation with no fire barriers between floors.

Originally Posted by papa smurf

could be the cladding being inferior and dangerous but could that be proved as the cause ?

the fridge set on fire what combustible's where in the vicinity could it be user error .

IIRC manslaughter has to be via the result of gross negligence so it's unlikely to involve a honest mistake from a person.

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by nomadking

Inferior?


If the images on ITV news are anything to go by, the design or installation of any insulation was at fault. One of the buildings shown, had insulation with no fire barriers between floors.

it went up in flames at an alarming rate - i bet it's not supposed to do that hence inferior

---------- Post added at 14:19 ---------- Previous post was at 14:17 ----------

Originally Posted by Damien

IIRC manslaughter has to be via the result of gross negligence so it's unlikely to involve a honest mistake from a person.

i read that the fridge is being investigated [how ] there cant be much left to look at

[RichardCoulter]

Originally Posted by Mr Banana

in my opinion, at this time it doesn't matter what status they are. They have been through a truely horrific experience and may have lost friends and family. They need re housing, help in getting themselves sorted out materially and mentally. After that the authorities can determine who should and shouldn't have been there.

All courtesy of the taxpayer...

The only reason I think that we should be helping those not entitled to be there is to obtain an accurate body count, so that those responsible can be properly dealt with.

Originally Posted by papa smurf

i read that the fridge is being investigated [how ] there cant be much left to look at

Presumably to see if there is a safety issue that would require a recall.

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by papa smurf

it went up in flames at an alarming rate - i bet it's not supposed to do that hence inferior

---------- Post added at 14:19 ---------- Previous post was at 14:17 ----------
i read that the fridge is being investigated [how ] there cant be much left to look at

It SPREAD at an alarming rate. That will be due to the design of the installation. The insulation is expected to burn, but not to spread beyond that section. The plans indicate a pretty much uninterrupted continuous surround of the insulation. That allowed it to spread.

As we previously stated, our records show a Celotex product (RS5000) was purchased for use in refurbishing the building. This product has a fire rating classification of Class 0, in accordance with British Standards. Celotex RS5000 is the insulation component specifically tested as part of a system to British Standard BS8414-2:2005. When the system is designed and installed in line with this, RS5000 meets the criteria set out in BRE Report BR 135 ‘Fire performance of external thermal insulation for walls of multi storey buildings.’

Another building shown on ITV news was a clear example of a system not being designed and/or installed, in line with the recommendations.

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

All courtesy of the taxpayer...

The only reason I think that we should be helping those not entitled to be there is to obtain an accurate body count, so that those responsible can be properly dealt with.

Really? So no compassion/support at all for someone who may have lost his/her children/ mother/father/partner in the most horrific way as in your mind, they shouldn't have been there in the first place?

[denphone]

Camden flats to be evacuated over cladding.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-40389148

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by papa smurf

one of the main problems is where do you put the tenants while a tower block is being brought up to standard .

Originally Posted by papa smurf

pure luck that those flats are available rehousing 5-600 people isn't that easy in London or any city these days

They don't need to be rehoused whilst the blocks are being brought up to standard, there's plenty of budget hotels, travel lodges etc all over town they can stay at, they might even get a discount for bulk booking like my housing association apparently got when the block of flats I lived in exploded in January