Crisis in the NHS

[heero_yuy]

Originally Posted by Maggy J

Breast operations? I hope you are not including breast cancer treatment.After all a woman who has to lose a breast as a consequence may not have the wherewithal to pay for reconstructive surgery.

I did say elective. Reconstruction after cancer certainly should be done in the NHS but then we get this:

FERTILITY experts say the NHS must freeze eggs from gender-swap teen girls so they can have kids in the future.

The demand is included in new guidelines to hospital medics from the British Fertility Society.

The guidance says the procedure “should be performed as soon as possible” during the sex change process.

It costs around £5,000 to harvest the eggs and a further £300 annually for storage.

Source

No wonder money is short.

[Osem]

The NHS is having to cope with far more people with far more complicated problems for far longer than has ever been the case. It's also having to deal with the problems caused by short sighted cuts in social care but let's not pretend that serious problems have only ever happened under one colour of government. The amount of money being spent on PFI is staggering and could far better have been spent sorting out the fundamental issues. It's ironic that many people seem to be complaining about the NHS whilst at the same time demanding ever more from it by way of all sorts of services never originally envisaged, going to GP's when they don't really need to and abusing our A&E's/ambulance services with the most trivial complaints...

---------- Post added at 11:28 ---------- Previous post was at 11:24 ----------

Originally Posted by Damien

I largely agree with you. Especially how people will shout privatisation so no progress will ever be made. I think the whole debate around nationalisation vs privatisation cripples this country as people dogmatically insist on either one or the other irrespective of circumstance. A problem which doesn't exist on the continent who are a lot more pragmatic about this kind of thing.

One point about the French model though is not it's not quite free at the point of use. You do have to pay upfront for some minor things and then later get reimbursed depending on various forms of public and private insurance you can get.

As important as free at the point of use to me is the ease of use. Anything that gets into paperwork, reimbursements and so on I think should be avoided. As well as the cost of the America system the stress of getting the correct paperwork, taxes and coverage in addition to becoming sick must be horrible.

---------- Post added at 09:21 ---------- Previous post was at 09:12 ----------



Is this really the issue?

It seems the biggest burdens on the NHS are an aging population, obesity and alcohol. In 1948 there were fewer old people relative to the population and fewer treatments available. I am not sure the problem with the NHS is snowflakes using it for minor conditions.

It's not THE problem because there are many but it is a significant problem as anyone who works in a GP surgery or A&E will tell you.

So what we have is a perfect storm a rapidly growing population which will inevitably result in an ever increasing amount of elderly to care for and keep alive at all costs even when they want to be allowed to die...

[heero_yuy]

This piece by orthopaedic surgeon Michael Wilkinson helps define the problems and offers some possible solutions. Well worth a read.

(Yes, I know it's in the Sun but don't shoot the messenger)

Originally Posted by heero_yuy

This piece by orthopaedic surgeon Michael Wilkinson helps define the problems and offers some possible solutions. Well worth a read.

(Yes, I know it's in the Sun but don't shoot the messenger)

I would support something like this - it’s what my son does at the moment, as he is on a Working Tourist Visa in Oz.

I’m particularly fond of the Australian system. It’s a mix of state and private care and, largely, it works.

There is universal provision through Medicare. If you earn above a certain amount you then pay a Medicare supplement or have health insurance.

If you have health insurance, that is tax deductible because you are not making a claim upon the state.

Originally Posted by Osem

It's not THE problem because there are many but it is a significant problem as anyone who works in a GP surgery or A&E will tell you.

So what we have is a perfect storm a rapidly growing population which will inevitably result in an ever increasing amount of elderly to care for and keep alive at all costs even when they want to be allowed to die...

I think certainly in A&E and GPs it could be a problem but just in terms of cost and pressure elsewhere on the system I doubt it accounts for much. A&E seems to have a lot of issues that arise from binge drinking.

As for the idea of allowing people to die that's a whole other interesting topic that could go on for a while....

[nomadking]

The card idea is nonsense. All the health tourists have to do is see a GP and a NHS number is issued. Same would go for a card of any sort. Also they would easily fake them or simply borrow somebody else's.

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by Damien

It seems the biggest burdens on the NHS are an ageing population, obesity and alcohol. In 1948 there were fewer old people relative to the population and fewer treatments available. I am not sure the problem with the NHS is snowflakes using it for minor conditions.

Actually life expectancy is now plateauing.
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/...-a8131526.html

On 16 November, an article in the British Medical Journal Open concluded that severe public spending cuts in the UK were associated with 120,000 deaths between 2010 and 2017.
Buried deep in a note towards the end of a recent bulletin published by the British Government’s statistical agency was a startling revelation. On average, people in the UK are now projected to live shorter lives than previously thought.

In their projections, published in October 2017, statisticians at the Office for National Statistics (ONS) estimated that by 2041, life expectancy for women would be 86.2 years and 83.4 years for men. In both cases, that’s almost a whole year less than had been projected just two years earlier. And the statisticians said life expectancy would only continue to creep upwards in future.

As a result, and looking further ahead, a further one million earlier deaths are now projected to happen across the UK in the next 40 years by 2058. This number was not highlighted in the report. But it jumped out at us when we analysed the tables of projections published alongside it.

It means that the 110 years of steadily improving life expectancy in the UK are now officially over. The implications of this are huge and the reasons the statistics were revised is a tragedy on an enormous scale...

...And then, after 2011, under the Conservative-led Governments of David Cameron and Theresa May, nothing. No improvement. Life expectancy flat-lined.

I have been in and out of hospital with my elderly mother, who is in failing health with heart failure, several times over the last few months. They've never admitted her although I'm sure they should have done as more than once I've had to bring her back next day, or paramedics have had to take her back in. Getting her in and out of the house is a major exercise and very risky given she can hardly walk. There are basically no beds and if you've got anyone at home, they just send you home - false economy giving we have call the ambulance out several times - not for minor things, collapsing and not being able to breathe... It's an impossible situation for the NHS and anyone that needs it at the moment (and my hospital is supposedly one of the best performing trusts in the country !)

NHS chiefs needs to stop playing with numbers and Statistics. These are real peoples lives. Theresa May and Hunt trying to play down the issues, won’t wash, not when real people are suffering. LBC was discussing how a woman lost her son after waiting over 14 hours to receive treatment.

This is negligence and negligence is a form of physical and psychological abuse.

[denphone]

Ambulance A&E delays hit 1 in 8.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-42560312

Originally Posted by Mick

NHS chiefs needs to stop playing with numbers and Statistics. These are real peoples lives. Theresa May and Hunt trying to play down the issues, won’t wash, not when real people are suffering. LBC was discussing how a woman lost her son after waiting over 14 hours to receive treatment.

This is negligence and negligence is a form of physical and psychological abuse.

I think he very least they can do is reverse cuts to social care to free up some beds/resources that have overflown into the NHS. Either way it's going to take time.

[alanbjames]

I was taken into hospital in October and spent almost 3hrs in the back of an Ambulance before being offloaded.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Damien

I think he very least they can do is reverse cuts to social care to free up some beds/resources that have overflown into the NHS. Either way it's going to take time.

In the short term, the Government needs to increase spending on social care and the NHS. This will almost certainly have to be through increased borrowing or taxation. It is unlikely to be at the expense of projects like HS2, Brexit and Hinckley Point.

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

In the short term, the Government needs to increase spending on social care and the NHS. This will almost certainly have to be through increased borrowing or taxation. It is unlikely to be at the expense of projects like HS2, Brexit and Hinckley Point.

£13.3bn. spent on foreign aid in 2016 can't find figure for last year but why not use this to support our country's needs

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by papa smurf

£13.3bn. spent on foreign aid in 2016 can't find figure for last year but why not use this to support our country's needs

0.7% of our national income Smurf. A small price to pay, and in our interests, to try and stop the rest of the World imploding. It wouldn't rescue the NHS.

However £350m a week (£18.2bn a year) from the EU would go further. Saw on the side of a bus , so it must be true....

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by Mr K

0.7% of our national income Smurf. A small price to pay, and in our interests, to try and stop the rest of the World imploding. It wouldn't rescue the NHS.

However £350m a week (£18.2bn a year) from the EU would go further. Saw on the side of a bus , so it must be true....

i would rather spend the money on our citizens but if they don't matter to you why moan about the NHS you need to put that brexit hiss'y fit to bed we haven't left yet .