Email Tracking

IIRC most email clients have an option that prevents graphics from loading. Mine does so with anything the client thinks is junk. The "hidden graphic" trick is very old hat. Folks in marketing I used to work alongside were deploying it at least 10-12 years ago.

I once had a not-sales-honest-guv phone call from a company which started with the "we recently emailed you" line, and the spotty goyt on the other end then continued "and I know you viewed it" ... I cut in, "yes, you use a hidden graphic on the page, you know when it's downloaded that the email was opened. What you don't know is that 5 seconds later I hit the Trash button. Thank you and goodbye."

Despite sending him off with a flea in his ear, I can understand the attraction, for a marketing operation, of knowing how many of their emails actually get opened (and, more importantly, how many of them get opened more than once by the same recipient).

What I can't understand is the sort of routine paranoia that leads a private user to want to track everything. Unless of course you have reason to think your family and friends are avoiding you.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Wittmann

Hello Russ,

Of course I understand your feelings, lots of people feel that way, but tracking is here to stay and is used widely by millions of private users and by commercial enterprises.

Antisocial behaviour is here to stay too, that doesn't mean I'm happy to sit back and just do nothing.

Originally Posted by Wittmann

Unless you personally take steps to block tracking on your PC, I am afraid you will be tracked and know absolutely nothing about it. What you don`t know, you cannot worry about. You are stuck with it.

I work in an industry where security is of paramount importance. The laptop I use is my work one and chances are the level of security on it is likely to be far higher than your ordinary everyday model. I guess if someone was really dedicated to tracking me online when I use it they probably could if they felt like wasting time and money.

Originally Posted by Wittmann

I am an Email user as well and wide open to tracking just like everybody else. Do I care ? NO not at all, I have more important things to occupy my time, so I cannot see why others should go to war about it. It is perfectly legal and regardless of individuals moral opinions, will carry on.

The argument of "if you've got nothing to hide you have nothing to worry about" falls at each hurdle. I don't get up to anything illegal in my home but that doesn't mean I'm happy to allow someone to stand at my front room window and stare inside.

[arcimedes]

I can see the attraction for knowing what's happened to your emails. I have a case where I need to know that a specific email has arrived where I sent it. The problem doesn't occur every time but when it doesn't get there its it means making a phone call. The specific email is sent to an aol user and sometimes vanishes without trace (you don't get an email back saying undeliverable).

But normally who cares if its got there.

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by Wittmann

Now it is my turn to say RUBBISH.

Wrong.. Hugh is right. The products you mentioned are just tools. They have no ability to decide when and how they are used. They, therefore, cannot be held liable.

Assuming they have any licence terms, you'll probably find terms to that effect, and also terms absolving the authors of any liability.

You can be held liable, and should any action be taken, you will be the one on the receiving end.

At the very least, I suspect the Data Protection Act would apply, as the IP and particularly location would count as personally identifiable information.

Finally, how reliable is it? As part of my job, I am on several mailing lists. If an email being tracked by one of these systems even got through our anti spam/malware systems (which it may not as the systems may actually protect against the invisible image downloading), how would you know an email sent to one of these lists had actually reached me? I don't necessarily read the emails if I can see they've been dealt with. The same with the VM CEO. I doubt he reads a fraction of the emails sent to him, they would all be dealt with by his office staff, only bringing those that actually need the CEO's attention to him.

Websites are legally required to have a privacy policy that visitors can read to understand what data is being collected, and have the option to opt out - I would hope the law would be extended to cover this sort of shenanigans......

[Stuart]

Originally Posted by qasdfdsaq

Google doesn't use a 'proxy server'

Indeed, they've spent a not so small fortune essentially building up their own world wide content delivery network, in much the same was as Akamai.

I suppose you think sending someone a letter and watching them open it in their own home is OK too and nothing at all to do with the recipient?

---------- Post added at 20:01 ---------- Previous post was at 19:52 ----------



That is true, and raises a related point - there are already existing, established systems built-in to the email protocol itself that allow for consensual tracking and notifications. Those systems notify you when a recipient has received and/or read your email, but only with their permission. And as you say, most people turn it off because they don't like the idea.

What the OP is proposing is non-consensual, surreptitious tracking. And while it's not "nice", it's nothing new, frequently used by spammers, and probably not illegal. One could argue the information retrieved is necessarily provided by the client in order for anything to work, after all you get the same information submitted to your site from every visitor who visits CableForum. Thanks to it being widely used by spammers and hackers though, almost all email providers block it by default now.

I think it's a case of it's not illegal purely because these tracking methods were not around when our laws regarding privacy were defined.. As such, the fact it's not illegal has nothing to do with wether it's good or bad, just that no one knew about it at the time the laws were defined, so they didn't include it. Much the same reason most "legal highs" are still legal.

Eh, you have too much faith in people. Still, most of that info is just a rough guess based on standard information submitted by a web browser any time someone opens a web page. If someone opens such a "booby-trapped" message from an internet cafe, pretty much all the information would be unrelated to them.

This is another reason why I question whether this kind of tracking is even worth it for a person. Sure, if they are tracking you as part of a legitimate email operation, or even spam, it's worth their while tracking you as they only need a small percentage of the recipients to buy what they are selling for the campaign to be profitable, and with any reasonable size email campaign or spam campaign, there is a good chance they will get accurate tracking for at least some people.

If you are emailing a single person, that tracking info may or may not be accurate, but it's probably not relevant. If you send an email to me, you probably don't need to know what device I am using or where I am as long as I answer your email quickly and correctly. I could be at my desk, at home or wandering through the Highlands of Scotland for all you care.

---------- Post added at 11:53 ---------- Previous post was at 11:47 ----------

Originally Posted by Wittmann

I am an Email user as well and wide open to tracking just like everybody else. Do I care ? NO not at all, I have more important things to occupy my time, so I cannot see why others should go to war about it. It is perfectly legal and regardless of individuals moral opinions, will carry on.

There are many bad things that happen to many people throughout the world because they are perfectly legal, and people just sit back and say "well, it's legal" and do nothing else. Doesn't mean they are good or even right.

Some of them involve large scale tracking of a given countries citizens.

[qasdfdsaq]

Originally Posted by Stuart

I think it's a case of it's not illegal purely because these tracking methods were not around when our laws regarding privacy were defined.. As such, the fact it's not illegal has nothing to do with wether it's good or bad, just that no one knew about it at the time the laws were defined, so they didn't include it. Much the same reason most "legal highs" are still legal.

Perhaps, perhaps not. As Chris mentioned, these methods have been around for well over a decade, and our privacy laws have been revised several times in that period.

Like many other "dubious" activities, e.g. P2P, the underlying technology is perfectly legal but specific uses of it such as "email tracking" may or may not be. The law doesn't have to explicitly specify each exact offence, we do have several laws in both English and Scots law that can be used as a catch-all for just about any activity that offends anyone. It needs to be tested in a court of law and I think it's a grey enough area it could go both ways.

Take for example a smart washing machine you buy - it "phones home" to the manufacturer reporting details of your washing habits. A mobile phone that 'activates' automatically when you first turn it on. Radio systems in shopping centres that track how much time each person spends in each shop. Or signing for a parcel - where sometimes the sender is given a copy of your signature, and sometimes not. Or even, just putting a GPS tracker inside a parcel. Where does one cross the line on 'privacy'?

---------- Post added at 13:07 ---------- Previous post was at 13:02 ----------

Originally Posted by Stuart

There are many bad things that happen to many people throughout the world because they are perfectly legal, and people just sit back and say "well, it's legal" and do nothing else. Doesn't mean they are good or even right.

Indeed. There was no law against stalking in Scotland until a few years ago. Same goes for it being legal to shoot a Scotsman with a bow and arrow in York. And it's still legal to escape from prison in Denmark. If you can...

Google doesn't use a 'proxy server'
OK, so my description was wrong. Very sorry.

What I meant is that all Gmail cannot be tracked to location, because of Google`s server and Email opening arrangement. You still get an opened notification, but the location and details are for Google`s paradise in California.

I understand the correction, but some do use proxy servers. The point I was making is that with Google and I believe MS, the location and any details are not applicable to the recipient. The only point worth considering is that you still get an opened notification. The only real reason for tracking.

See :-
http://blog.bananatag.com/2013/12/05...om-california/

[Russ]

Originally Posted by arcimedes

I can see the attraction for knowing what's happened to your emails. I have a case where I need to know that a specific email has arrived where I sent it. The problem doesn't occur every time but when it doesn't get there its it means making a phone call. The specific email is sent to an aol user and sometimes vanishes without trace (you don't get an email back saying undeliverable).

But normally who cares if its got there.

A lot of debt collection agencies use tracking images in emails when trying to trace a debtor who is no longer answering letters, phone calls etc

Originally Posted by Russ

A lot of debt collection agencies use tracking images in emails when trying to trace a debtor who is no longer answering letters, phone calls etc

AH ! Russ, so you have spotted the reason why people do not like tracking.

Well, if you have nothing to hide and have not got the hounds snapping at your ankles, tracking is no problem at all. I do not give a toss about people with a personal problem to hide or are morally paranoid about tracking.

As I have already said, I do not give a monkeys toot about being tracked or the personal details that may be scooped up. Good luck to them and have a nice day.

AND regardless of individual opinions, to track a message such that you receive a notification that the recipient has opened it, is about the most fundamentally legitimate requirement in communication terms as having a cup of coffee.

Whatever your moralistic thoughts on tracking, you will be tracked if you have not configured your Email system to block tracking, so get used to the idea and just lump it and enjoy life.

Oddly enough, most of us were enjoying life before you started this somewhat esoteric and pointless discussion, and spent precisely zero seconds per day fretting about the sending and receiving of email. Most us will continue to do so.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Wittmann

AH ! Russ, so you have spotted the reason why people do not like tracking.

Well, if you have nothing to hide and have not got the hounds snapping at your ankles, tracking is no problem at all. I do not give a toss about people with a personal problem to hide or are morally paranoid about tracking.

As I have already said, I do not give a monkeys toot about being tracked or the personal details that may be scooped up. Good luck to them and have a nice day.

Originally Posted by me

The argument of "if you've got nothing to hide you have nothing to worry about" falls at each hurdle. I don't get up to anything illegal in my home but that doesn't mean I'm happy to allow someone to stand at my front room window and stare inside.

Originally Posted by Wittmann

AH ! Russ, so you have spotted the reason why people do not like tracking.

Well, if you have nothing to hide and have not got the hounds snapping at your ankles, tracking is no problem at all. I do not give a toss about people with a personal problem to hide or are morally paranoid about tracking.

As I have already said, I do not give a monkeys toot about being tracked or the personal details that may be scooped up. Good luck to them and have a nice day.

AND regardless of individual opinions, to track a message such that you receive a notification that the recipient has opened it, is about the most fundamentally legitimate requirement in communication terms as having a cup of coffee.

Whatever your moralistic thoughts on tracking, you will be tracked if you have not configured your Email system to block tracking, so get used to the idea and just lump it and enjoy life.

If it's so legitimate, how come it has to be done sneakily, rather than just asking for a receipt?

btw1, what is legitimate about having a cup of coffee?

btw2, you don't give a toot, but you don't speak on behalf of the rest of us...

btw3, not wanting people to know my geographic location when I read an email isn't a personal problem, just a basic privacy issue.

Originally Posted by Hugh

If it's so legitimate, how come it has to be done sneakily, rather than just asking for a receipt?

btw1, what is legitimate about having a cup of coffee?

btw2, you don't give a toot, but you don't speak on behalf of the rest of us...

btw3, not wanting people to know my geographic location when I read an email isn't a personal problem, just a basic privacy issue.

Oh come off it Hugh, you are grown up, surely you recognise that if is was not legal, it would be stopped.

Asking for a receipt ! ASKING, what and rely on the recipient giving you one ? Jesus, you must be joking. It is not that kind of world.

Just face it, whilst tracking is legal, you will be tracked and so will all the others who are shouting their moral mouths off. That`s life Hugh, some you win and some you lose, sorry chum in this case you`ve lost.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Wittmann

That`s life Hugh, some you win and some you lose, sorry chum in this case you`ve lost.

You may find many of us will disagree on that point.