Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !

Originally Posted by OLD BOY

I think €40bn is closer to what the EU is actually aiming for, but they won't get it. Where is the deduction in their calculations for what we have put into the investment bank, for example?

As I said before, there are two sides to the balance sheet. We owe them, but they owe us.

Exactly. The ridiculously high €100bn figure isn't a legal demand for payment arising from contractual obligations. It is a starting point for negotiation. It is the nearest we will ever get to hearing the European Commision admit that they have no legal basis to demand anything from us and must therefore rely on a political settlement. The fact is, neither the treaties nor the specifics of exit set out in A50 say anything about a retiring state being liable for the ongoing costs of the project, even if that state helped incur those costs.

Further, the Commission clearly wants to separate out the question of the "divorce bill" from the "new relationship" in order to try to stop any payment by the UK into the EU being used as a means of demanding ongoing membership of, or access to, the single market.

In the midst of all this, we should remember that Theresa May has given responsibility for these negotiations to an arch Eurosceptic who has already served as Europe minister under John Major and has SAS training.

David Davis is principled, hard nosed and won't take any messing from the EU's negotiators.

[passingbat]

Originally Posted by Chris

and has SAS training.

The way things are going, that could come in handy

---------- Post added at 13:27 ---------- Previous post was at 13:12 ----------

Originally Posted by Osem

I really don't know why anyone would be surprised by this either. Throughout its history the EU has proved to be utterly intransigent and concerned only with achieving their ultimate aim of a single European state no matter what the cost. Compromise and pragmatism are anathema to the Eurocrats. Time and time again they have proved themselves to be unwilling to negotiate and yet the usual suspects here still trot out the same old pro-EU, anti-UK, claptrap, citing anything the PM does as inflammatory yet ignoring all the hostile messages emanating from Brussels. <snip>


so keen are they to cling onto what they presumably see as the EU security blanket. Of course they're not too keen to talk about what's being done to Greece, what that nice cosy EU security blanket feels like in Athens, who's really running the EU circus and just what lengths they'll go to in order to achieve their goal. They're used to having their own way and we're seeing it yet again, making up so called settlement figures out of nowhere which of course is they way they've run Europe's finances for years. The EU has proved itself to be uninterested in meaningful reform, unwilling to compromise and totally preoccupied with trying to make the UK pay as much as possible for having the audacity to decide its own future. If there is no deal at the end of all this the EU will be responsible for that not the UK.

Spot on.

[Gavin78]

Thats the problem with the EU though it started out as a trading block. I can see our legal team now going in asking for the original contracts when joining and seeing the EU legal team running around trying to find any legal paper work at all.

This is why the UK is not invited to the EU talks on Brexit 27 nations against 1 looking for ways to prevent us from leaving and if we do what can we screw them for before they go.

I hear time and time again that the EU is on our side they are our friend it's not personal it's business lol yeah that's why threats are coming out left right and centre.

[jonbxx]

Interesting article from a law firm on the legal position or case for a 'divorce' payment - https://www.dlapiper.com/en/europe/i...-legal-issues/

Basically, there's no legal basis or precedent for a final payment but there are some unanswered issues about payments that need to be clarified (Nigel Farages pension for example) It seems the decision of whether to pay and how much is a political one.

One point to consider going forward is how the UK will appear to counties wanting to set up trade agreements if it appears to walk without addressing ongoing commitments.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by jonbxx

Interesting article from a law firm on the legal position or case for a 'divorce' payment - https://www.dlapiper.com/en/europe/i...-legal-issues/

Basically, there's no legal basis or precedent for a final payment but there are some unanswered issues about payments that need to be clarified (Nigel Farages pension for example) It seems the decision of whether to pay and how much is a political one.

One point to consider going forward is how the UK will appear to counties wanting to set up trade agreements if it appears to walk without addressing ongoing commitments.

That'll depend on how legitimate the argument for those 'commitments' appears to be and what the circumstances are if/when the worst happened. If it turns out that the figures quoted are a complete fiction I'd say it's the EU which is going to look pretty disingenuous not the UK. Remember their stated aim is to make the UK come off worse in any agreement. What message does that sent to the world?

It's perfectly possible that the EU's actions WRT Brexit are putting off a few potential trading partners of their own right now.

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by pip08456

Yes and no.

Read that how you will, significant errors would indicate a problem.

That'll be no to the origional question then

Originally Posted by Chris

She's played precisely the right card. The EU needs to know we're serious. There's also the small matter of a general election, and her obvious calculation that there are votes in it.

I think they know we're serious

http://southendnewsnetwork.com/news/...ring-of-stars/

If only it were true

[1andrew1]

There's a very funny article in the FT imagining the infamous meal. Here's an excerpt:

@MartinSelmayr: May says EU trying to influence UK election. PARANOIA. It’s the French and German elections we are trying to influence.
@NickJTimothy: Juncker pulls out 1,000-page Serbia accession treaty to show complexity of the negotiations. May pulls out Magna Carta.
@MartinSelmayr: Juncker brandishes 4,000-page trade treaty with Canada. May produces Treaty of Versailles. Juncker pulls out first Gutenberg Bible.
@NickJTimothy Getting hard to eat with all these documents on table. Can barely see Selmayr over the Markets in Financial Instruments Directive. Hope he’s not tweeting.

Google "Brexit dinner: live leaking the second serving" to read full article.

We will not be paying anywhere near 40 billion euros if we pay anything at all honestly thank god some of the people on this forum are not part of the negotiating team as they just hand everything over. The EU's position is not one of strength that some of you seem convinced they are in fact they are quite weak hence all the tough talk and high demands trying to give the appearence of strength in the absence of it. Get a spine some of you and stop dribbling over everything that comes out of the EU the UK holds the upper hand in a number of areas and May knows it that's why she's prepared to walk away rather then take a crap deal.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by RizzyKing

We will not be paying anywhere near 40 billion euros if we pay anything at all honestly thank god some of the people on this forum are not part of the negotiating team as they just hand everything over. The EU's position is not one of strength that some of you seem convinced they are in fact they are quite weak hence all the tough talk and high demands trying to give the appearence of strength in the absence of it. Get a spine some of you and stop dribbling over everything that comes out of the EU the UK holds the upper hand in a number of areas and May knows it that's why she's prepared to walk away rather then take a crap deal.

Labour and the LidDems too. Pathetic.

It's like they want a bad outcome so they can harp on about it rather than admit they were wrong.

[Mr K]

Whatever the figure, people are now realising that Brexit is going to affect their own finances significantly. We've already seen the early affects, inflation, weak pound, stagnating wages. It's Brexiters that are the ones who seem to be 'angry' atm, despite having 'won'. Maybe they are only just realising the consequences.

[jonbxx]

I thunk things are getting a little antagonistic on both sides at the moment. Surely the correct response to a proposed €100bn bill would be 'show me your working and we'll talk', not just 'no'. And vice versa, it shows a degree of naivety to think that dropping such a figure would go down well

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by jonbxx

I thunk things are getting a little antagonistic on both sides at the moment. Surely the correct response to a proposed €100bn bill would be 'show me your working and we'll talk', not just 'no'. And vice versa, it shows a degree of naivety to think that dropping such a figure would go down well

it goes down well with the sell outs they would give the EU any thing it wants ,money /sovereignty/ kidney /first born child no price is too high to sell out the UK .

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by papa smurf

it goes down well with the sell outs they would give the EU any thing it wants ,money /sovereignty/ kidney /first born child no price is too high to sell out the UK .

I'd give them Farage, Ant and/or Dec, Phil Collins, Jim Davison, Jimmy Tarbuck, Piers Morgan, Jeremy Hunt and Katie Hopkins. It'd be a win/win and almost make Brexit worth it

Originally Posted by papa smurf

it goes down well with the sell outs they would give the EU any thing it wants ,money /sovereignty/ kidney /first born child no price is too high to sell out the UK .

And it gets the rabid Brexiteers in a tizzy, leading them to over the top hyperbole, offering to sacrifice their first born child* in the pursuit of purity of purpose and a rock-hard Brexit....

*tbf, it's usually someone else's first born child...