Sunday trading laws to be suspended during Olympics?

[Peter_]

Originally Posted by richard1960

Do the unions accept it peter , i have just been on the shopworkers union site USDAW this is what they had to say about sunday trading laws.

The shopworkers Union Usdaw has welcomed today's announcement by the Government that they are to leave the laws covering Sunday trading in England and Wales unchanged and will seek to simplify the legislation dealing with age-restricted sales.

1. A survey of over 10,000 Usdaw members completed in April this year found that:

91% opposed large shops being able to open all hours on a Sunday

95% thought the current ban on large shops opening on Christmas Day and Easter Sunday should continue.

2. A Gfk/NOP survey carried out last year found that 89% of the public were opposed to any relaxation of the Sunday Trading laws.

It would seem many unions are concerned workers might be co-erced into working ie have pressure put upon them. USDAW seem very unkeen on any relaxation.

Sainsbury's in Haydock is a USDAW unionised and they have full time officials on site, it is a distribution warehouse and they need to work 24/7 to ensure that the stores are kept stocked, the only day they close is Christmas Day.

They are not affected by Sunday trading laws so they have to work on a Sunday otherwise the would be little point in the warehouse being open.

The examples above are only in relation to store opening times plus most of the stores do not just finish once the doors close as most big stores have staff replenishing the shelves throughout the night even on a Sunday and from 10pm on on a Saturday.

It is only trading hours that are affected and not everyone realises that part because they have never worked in that area.

Sunday trading is archaic and has no place in modern society if you go to Scotland and go to a Tesco it is open 24/7 they do not close on a Sunday or at 10pm on a Saturday.

[Graham M]

I find myself agreeing with your entire post Peter

Originally Posted by Peter_

Sainsbury's in Haydock is a USDAW unionised and they have full time officials on site, it is a distribution warehouse and they need to work 24/7 to ensure that the stores are kept stocked, the only day they close is Christmas Day.

They are not affected by Sunday trading laws so they have to work on a Sunday otherwise the would be little point in the warehouse being open.

The examples above are only in relation to store opening times plus most of the stores do not just finish once the doors close as most big stores have staff replenishing the shelves throughout the night even on a Sunday and from 10pm on on a Saturday.

It is only trading hours that are affected and not everyone realises that part because they have never worked in that area.

Sunday trading is archaic and has no place in modern society if you go to Scotland and go to a Tesco it is open 24/7 they do not close on a Sunday or at 10pm on a Saturday.

Retailers are happy with the current laws ,there is ample maneuverability within current legislation to accomodate any company that wants to trade on sundays ,i see no reason for them to be changed ,especially in such a devious manner .We already have some of the most lenient sunday trading in the EU why bother to change them especially when there has been no debate and no consultation and to do it at the time of the Olympics is just plain stupid .

[colin25]

Originally Posted by martyh

Retailers are happy with the current laws ,there is ample maneuverability within current legislation to accomodate any company that wants to trade on sundays ,i see no reason for them to be changed ,especially in such a devious manner .We already have some of the most lenient sunday trading in the EU why bother to change them especially when there has been no debate and no consultation and to do it at the time of the Olympics is just plain stupid .

I thought they were doing because of the Olympics, that was the point. Hence at time of Olympics becomes moot

[Taf]

Originally Posted by Peter_

Sunday trading laws should be ditched completely as the is no logical reason in modern society for such an archaic law to still be in place, it is not as if the majority of people go to church so Sunday should be classed the same as any other day.

We need to realise that nowadays many people work of a Sunday and it should be treated as just another working day, remember that the employees that work of a Sunday still only work a 5 day week the same as everyone else.

I'm surprised the Welsh Assembly talking shop haven't tried to ban Sunday shop opening and alcohol sales in Wales. Or perhaps they are waiting for more devolved "power" from Westminster.

[Peter_]

Originally Posted by martyh

Retailers are happy with the current laws ,there is ample maneuverability within current legislation to accomodate any company that wants to trade on sundays ,i see no reason for them to be changed ,especially in such a devious manner .We already have some of the most lenient sunday trading in the EU why bother to change them especially when there has been no debate and no consultation and to do it at the time of the Olympics is just plain stupid .

If a retailer such as Tesco had the opportunity to open 24/7 as in Scotland they would because customers would be flocking to their stores, if that did not happen then it would not be viable but I can guarantee that people would shop all day Sunday if they could, no retailer is happy be shackled to such short hours on a Sunday.

Originally Posted by colin25

I thought they were doing because of the Olympics, that was the point. Hence at time of Olympics becomes moot

From the op's link

Although the relaxation would be temporary, the Treasury is expected to closely monitor its effects and a permanent move has not been ruled out if it proves a success

---------- Post added at 13:43 ---------- Previous post was at 13:32 ----------

Originally Posted by colin25

I thought they were doing because of the Olympics, that was the point. Hence at time of Olympics becomes moot

No it doesn't ,performing such an experiment at the time of the Olympics ,using the Olympics as cover for emergency legislation is very much undemocratic because i am willing to bet that the changes become permanent shortly after with very little debate and consultation .There has been no concideration for staff that will be forced to work the extra hours during the temporary relaxation .

---------- Post added at 13:48 ---------- Previous post was at 13:43 ----------

Originally Posted by Peter_

If a retailer such as Tesco had the opportunity to open 24/7 as in Scotland they would because customers would be flocking to their stores, if that did not happen then it would not be viable but I can guarantee that people would shop all day Sunday if they could, no retailer is happy be shackled to such short hours on a Sunday.

So if all the major retailers started opening 24/7 how would help the economy ? all that will happen is that retailers will have longer opening hours ,income won't suddenly go up ,people won't suddenly start spending more money because the shops open longer

[Taf]

I suspect there are a lot of workers out there who will really welcome this chance to work longer hours, especially those caught in the WTC change that will see workers losing WTC if they work under 24 hours per week.

Closing shops on Sunday morning so that the "masses" can go to church is a bit of a daft thought when congregations are falling as people leave religion back in the Dark Ages where it belonged. And why just shops? Why not close down all industry on a Sunday. All Hospitals, Emergency services, the Military? What is so different about shops that they get singled out?

Originally Posted by Taf

I suspect there are a lot of workers out there who will really welcome this chance to work longer hours, especially those caught in the WTC change that will see workers losing WTC if they work under 24 hours per week.

Closing shops on Sunday morning so that the "masses" can go to church is a bit of a daft thought when congregations are falling as people leave religion back in the Dark Ages where it belonged.

I don't see it as anything to do with going to church anymore ,my argument against this barmy idea is all to do with promoting family life .From a government that is supposed to be promoting that idea they are going about removing the time families have to spend together in a very efficient way

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Peter_

If a retailer such as Tesco had the opportunity to open 24/7 as in Scotland they would because customers would be flocking to their stores, if that did not happen then it would not be viable but I can guarantee that people would shop all day Sunday if they could, no retailer is happy be shackled to such short hours on a Sunday.

Opening for an extra 3 hours 1 day of the week will not magicially put disposable income in people's pockets.

The whole idea is a barmy one and should be consigned to the scrap heap of barmy government ideas .Fair enough if they insist on allowing shops to open extra hours during the olympics as a special one off then fine ,but the shops should only use volunteers ,but any idea of permanent change should be scrapped we have a good compromise at the moment that seems to suit all parties and should be left as is .

[Peter_]

Originally Posted by Russ

Opening for an extra 3 hours 1 day of the week will not magicially put disposable income in people's pockets.

It works in Scotland so why not here.

Originally Posted by Peter_

It works in Scotland so why not here.

nobodies saying it won't work ,i am saying why bother ,all that will happen is staff will be forced to work more unsociable hours for the same money ,it will not increase profits for the retailers and will adversly affect other smaller retailers who ,such as corner shops ,may earn more when the big shops are shut

Originally Posted by Peter_

Sainsbury's in Haydock is a USDAW unionised and they have full time officials on site, it is a distribution warehouse and they need to work 24/7 to ensure that the stores are kept stocked, the only day they close is Christmas Day.

They are not affected by Sunday trading laws so they have to work on a Sunday otherwise the would be little point in the warehouse being open.

The examples above are only in relation to store opening times plus most of the stores do not just finish once the doors close as most big stores have staff replenishing the shelves throughout the night even on a Sunday and from 10pm on on a Saturday.

It is only trading hours that are affected and not everyone realises that part because they have never worked in that area.

Sunday trading is archaic and has no place in modern society if you go to Scotland and go to a Tesco it is open 24/7 they do not close on a Sunday or at 10pm on a Saturday.

Well USDAW are clearly agaist it in the stores i worked for Tesco for 10 years in the 80s so have a fair idea of what it will affect this debate was going on then ,and still know people who work for Tesco in their stores anybody who thinks current staff will not be co-erced into working is living in a dream world,which is possibly why the 10,000 USDAW members who were polled over 90% were against the idea.

Why does it have no place in a modern society as i have explained to you France is even more secular then us,and their shops barely open on sunday the French prefer family time over a day,families are fractured enough in this country without commerce makining people work 24/7.

I fully realise distribution warehouses are different most operate a "just in time" delivery method so engage their workforce accordingly.

I wonder has there any evidence opening for longer will provide more jobs.?

---------- Post added at 14:43 ---------- Previous post was at 14:38 ----------

Originally Posted by martyh

The whole idea is a barmy one and should be consigned to the scrap heap of barmy government ideas .Fair enough if they insist on allowing shops to open extra hours during the olympics as a special one off then fine ,but the shops should only use volunteers ,but any idea of permanent change should be scrapped we have a good compromise at the moment that seems to suit all parties and should be left as is .

Yes i fully agree,it was said when the compromise was reached big chains like Tesco would not be satisfied and lo and behold they are not.

The compromise is sensible but yes i agree about the olympics opening but as you say volunteers only.

[Peter_]

Originally Posted by martyh

nobodies saying it won't work ,i am saying why bother ,all that will happen is staff will be forced to work more unsociable hours for the same money ,it will not increase profits for the retailers and will adversly affect other smaller retailers who ,such as corner shops ,may earn more when the big shops are shut

It would create more jobs due to the extra opening hours but it is probably unlikely to ever happen.