Eurozone will collapse...

thanks for the above guys ,those two graphs would suggest that trade outside the EU is just as profitable for the UK as trade within it .I suppose the question would be how much trade would we lose from EU countries should we leave and could we make up the difference with new trade deals

[mertle]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-16122895

Thought osbourne and cameron is being bit premature with these claims.

We simply dont know if it was in britains interest to be in or out. Only time will tell if we badly double dip and europe stabilise then we the biggest mugs living.

We recover they go under we laugh at europe but do we our exports/imports will suffer. Jobs will go so surely saving jobs should been cameron interests not protecting the savages who got us in the mess the banking sector.

Sadly here lies kicker we forced to protect because its only salvation left thats due to years backward politics from tories, blair new labour who stupidly made the country a service industry reliant.

Not enough manufacturing in the country to keep us going if the financial sector decided to up sticks. So like some only way was to protect it maybe we learned the hard way.

To be I would be shocked if they stay they will go anyway to hong kong, malaysia, shanghai, japan anywhere other europe.

They will try find there havens.

Very big testing times who right who wrong I pray to god cameron knows what he doing and pray to god he got the financial sector locked down.

[nomadking]

Some people seem to be suggesting that exports to Europe would stop altogether. Let's just suppose it did, the proposed financial transaction tax alone would cost more than the value of exports to the EU.

[mertle]

Originally Posted by martyh

thanks for the above guys ,those two graphs would suggest that trade outside the EU is just as profitable for the UK as trade within it .I suppose the question would be how much trade would we lose from EU countries should we leave and could we make up the difference with new trade deals

Some would not cease trade just because of it. Uk trade still big business to many firms not sure it big impact. However there could be breaks business get which might cause problems. Forging other avenues could be hard to materialise. I heared china suffering due to eurozone that will be big issue.

The alternative is become self sustained but to do that government would need to under cut foreign imports. Tax foreign imports to the hilt making it less desirable but that also hurts the ports/airports job market. Less of evils if we can turn uk into self sufficient.

We don't have the raw materials to be self-sufficient....

Originally Posted by nomadking

Some people seem to be suggesting that exports to Europe would stop altogether. Let's just suppose it did, the proposed financial transaction tax alone would cost more than the value of exports to the EU.

i'm not ,i firmly believe that trade would continue ,we may even find it easier to attract foriegn investment without the shackles of EU regulation

---------- Post added at 21:16 ---------- Previous post was at 21:12 ----------

Originally Posted by Hugh

We don't have the raw materials to be self-sufficient....

That is true the only reason we where "self sufficient" in centuries gone is because we took possesion of countries with resources we wanted ,now we have to trade .....or do we

Well all I know is that my very talented niece who has a very lucrative executive position in her company has moved lock stock and barrel with her company from Brussels to Manhattan..Now I wonder why they did that?

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by Hugh

We don't have the raw materials to be self-sufficient....

i grow my own Garlic

[mertle]

Originally Posted by Hugh

We don't have the raw materials to be self-sufficient....

indeed this why I tell my parents uk as sole self sufficient entity is impossible. You make a clasic point where do raw materials come from to make items.

Only solution if we buy in raw materials but make UK goods it would ofset it abit. Problem would those countries boycott UK if we snubbing foreign goods or taxing too much that they become undesirable.

If its possible we become closet country those we cant deal with get import break.

We could get jobs moving problem I have is many businesses foreign owned that knowhow could be avaporated.

However just shows how dificult it would be. Supose hybrid of both could work.

---------- Post added at 21:34 ---------- Previous post was at 21:28 ----------

Originally Posted by papa smurf

i grow my own Garlic

Thats lie papa smurf you get all the smurfs to do it for you

bet lazy, clumsy, greedy Smurfs right pain in the garden

Gargamel thiefs what you grow

[Osem]

Without the power to control immigration our population is set to continue rising rapidly creating even more pressure on our infrastructure and the resources we do have.

[mertle]

Originally Posted by Osem

Without the power to control immigration our population is set to continue rising rapidly creating even more pressure on our infrastructure and the resources we do have.

indeed there is ways to solve it not going to be liked some have ugly nasties.

finances from all countries pooled and distributed on head count by one central banking over observer.

That way way not matter who in the country but its impractable under current factions.

Equally if all econamies was the same pay was universal throughout it lesson issues over financial problems. What distributed then circulated maybe limits on wealth ownership not unrealistic stupid.

All above very unrealistic you wont see one country support the model.

More of realism even then remote would mean more debt which would in some cases sound suicidal but would create spending programme. With money men holding fire on there itchy triggers give governments breathing space. That is the bond holders grow some big ones finally admit they are part of the problem. I think unrealistic for them pressure govenments when those governments need to avert world crash rebalance wealth abit. Its basically chicken and egg scenerio. Austerity only effecting the wrong crowd but the real culprits putting pressure on to deeper cut. However the governments only tried to avert the high unemployment right or wrong the money people stopped investing.

The net result world slowed down goods not being bought to the lengths the world demands. We could argue people lived beyond there means by credit but credit boom was stop this from happening. Effectively we in downward spiral which will not stop until we see action outside governments.

Governments in a position beyond there control just cant do anything as the city trying squeeze life out them. My fear what happens if we cant turn it around.

Future very bleak either governments will conceed power for wiping dept or we heading for the bloodiest world war 3.

It would be great if all world debt was wiped out or at least big proportion we start again learn from the mistakes. It will never happen those who stand to lose fortune would kick holly hell up.

[Ignitionnet]

I'm a few G+Ts down the road but does the above make any sense to anyone?

No...

We need a Babel Fish.

[Chrysalis]

Originally Posted by Traduk

Cameron had no choice but to take the action he took because of Merkel's insistence that a Tobin tax be applied to transactions passing through the City of London.

It could not have been outside of her knowledge that Sweden tried a unilateral imposition of a Tobin tax back in the 1980's and it was a total disaster which saw their domestic transactional business vanish abroad and with a reduced tax take through Capital Gains tax and almost none from the Tobin tax they had to stem the loss of tax by abandoning Tobin Tax.

It has been tried once on a unilateral basis and was a disaster. It would be again unless globally enforced and as we are unique within Europe as having a global exchange through which flows about a trillion a day in Forex trading, we were uniquely expected to kill our goose which lays the golden eggs.

I have a 100% belief that it would have destroyed the City of London as a major hub for financial transactions and with it would have gone a substantial number of the 1.3 million jobs in the finance area of the City and the 11% of the entire tax take to our exchequer,.

The Tobin tax is designed to curb and destroy speculative trading and can only be implemented if universal or it is a certainty that the business from which we reap so much will go elsewhere.

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/workin...7_en.htm#chap3

Cameron was made an offer he had to refuse and IMO it was a political manoeuvre to sideline the UK. If all the others including Germany added their collective bourses and exchanges together they are totally insignificant compared to London in the global world of trading so what others were not concerned about hardly affected them at all and in many cases not at all.

That ploy was to get us out and for no other purpose and now that mission is accomplished I would not be surprised if the Tobin tax as to be applied to Europe isn't a long time, maybe never in coming. Eurex trading futures on German indices has been a long term rival to Liffe (trading futures on UK indices) but even though the are minuscule compared the to Forex flow through London I cannot somehow see Germany killing off Eurex.

Amid the double dealing and back stabbing approach within European politics there is an element that I read about frequently over the past few months. European leaders appear to wish to ignore the fact that Europe is inherently a flawed concept and wish to apply the blame for their dilemma on the contagion of debt problems of which we via our banks and exchanges were a major player. They appear set on wreaking vengeance on the free market approach which in showing those fault lines within Europe is analogous to shooting the messenger but ignoring the message.

Nothing has been achieved towards the immediate resolution of Europe's problems beyond the desired political agenda which will please the core countries and we have been ostracised as was obviously desired.

Contrary to what the inner core of Europe think there is only one player in this farce who matters and judgement will be made and appropriate action taken. In the world of global finance we are as major a hub and in some areas more so than the USA. The direction is set on the other side of the Atlantic and from there will come the eventual judgement on Europe. In politics not a lot happens by accident and we may well one day be more than grateful that Cameron took one for team UK when the French poodle snubbed him.

are you suggesting no action should be taken on the cause of the current problems simply because it will damage the city of london? with or without europe I strongly support any action that curbs what the bankers are doing.

---------- Post added at 10:55 ---------- Previous post was at 10:44 ----------

Originally Posted by mertle

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-16122895

Thought osbourne and cameron is being bit premature with these claims.

We simply dont know if it was in britains interest to be in or out. Only time will tell if we badly double dip and europe stabilise then we the biggest mugs living.

We recover they go under we laugh at europe but do we our exports/imports will suffer. Jobs will go so surely saving jobs should been cameron interests not protecting the savages who got us in the mess the banking sector.

Sadly here lies kicker we forced to protect because its only salvation left thats due to years backward politics from tories, blair new labour who stupidly made the country a service industry reliant.

Not enough manufacturing in the country to keep us going if the financial sector decided to up sticks. So like some only way was to protect it maybe we learned the hard way.

To be I would be shocked if they stay they will go anyway to hong kong, malaysia, shanghai, japan anywhere other europe.

They will try find there havens.

Very big testing times who right who wrong I pray to god cameron knows what he doing and pray to god he got the financial sector locked down.

so clegg finally grown some balls and got some morals back.

I wonder how many on this forum export any product or sell services to europe, I get the impression very little do as there is a clear anti eu vibe on here. The fact some are even suggesting the uk could just carry on without eu trade highliughts that.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Hugh

No...

We need a Babel Fish.

That'd be nice but our fisherman are prevented from catching those by European fisheries policy.

---------- Post added at 11:08 ---------- Previous post was at 10:57 ----------

I'm sorry but anyone who thinks destroying the financial sector won't cost lots of related jobs all over the UK is either deluded or being disingenuous. It's all very convenient portraying it as a matter of making the fat cats in London suffer but hundreds of thousands of ordinary people around the country depend (directly and indirectly) on the jobs and taxes which emanate from the City. Tell those people to vote for a Tobin Tax.

I say again - would the French have accepted reform of the CAP as the price they'd have to pay for being part of the new Eurozone regime? Somehow I think not. Expecting the UK to be different is ludicrous.

As for Clegg's supposed 'balls' well I see them shrinking rapidly in due course as the reality of his political position sinks home. Quelle surprise......