CCTV thru Router

Quam256 · 04-07-2008, 08:35

I am looking for 2 external cctv cameras that will run thru a router .One could do with being able to work at night .I know you get what you pay for but cost needs to be kept to a minimum.If you know of or have the use of cctv or were I can go for a good price that would appreciated.

Thanks

Graham M · 04-07-2008, 08:37

Swann make some good IP CCTV kit, they have a ring of Infra-Red LEDs around the lens but their throw is rather restricted, I suppose an Infra-Red floodlight could help, there is an outdoor one with more LEDs which might be better, Maplin sell this kit.

Quam256 · 04-07-2008, 08:46

I have been looking at tha ones at Maplins and thay have a sale on now. It is to cover the front of the house which has street lighting and the rear of the house which has garden about 40 ft.

Delta Whiskey · 04-07-2008, 11:21

I've helped set up a two camera system based on the Linksys WVC54GCA camera, the only problem with it was getting the wireless part to work (they can be wired or wireless). In the end I had to temporarily remove wireless encryption, set the cameras up and re-introduce encryption at the lowest level. http://www.linksys.co.uk/acatalog/WV...ng_Camera.html

Quam256 · 05-07-2008, 09:06

Is it possible to view CCTV connected to a Pc remotely over the Internet .Using a camera such as this ? http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?...=33744&doy=5m7
Or any other suggestions would be great .
IP cameras are starting to look expensive .

---------- Post added at 09:06 ---------- Previous post was at 08:33 ----------

May have put this in wrong place for the ? asked .

Graham M · 05-07-2008, 09:19

Erm, you'd need a TV tuner for that as that camera has no network connectivity. Quite how easy it'd be to stream once you'd got the connectivity I've no idea. Best stick with cameras with built-in web servers to be honest!

Draby · 05-07-2008, 09:31

Hi, one thing to watch for, with an "IP" camera, check that it's IP address is compatible with your router. You may have to look for user manuals on manufacturers websites to be sure there's no clash.
Richard

popper · 05-07-2008, 12:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graham M

Erm, you'd need a TV tuner for that as that camera has no network connectivity. Quite how easy it'd be to stream once you'd got the connectivity I've no idea. Best stick with cameras with built-in web servers to be honest!

dead easy, the problem people have, is over complicating this stuff.

in effect your just dealing with some form of video input into a PC ,be it USB,PCi,anologue, digital,wireless, whatever.

taking that composit feed (in this case) to the PC using a simple and cheap BT787 Tv card with composit input for instance, and streaming it back out again over tcp:IP /UDP or tunnel with VLC.

OC doing the realtime anologue composit TV input is the killer for your CPU as it needs to encode the composit feed into digital for your Ip streaming later,the faster the PC CPU the better in all things software encoding composit inputs especially the larger screen sizes PAL D1 aka 720x576.

your far better off feeding that composit feed into some form of USB realtime hardware Encoder (reasonably cheap and small/low power now)to the likes of MPeg4 ASP (aka DivX/Xvid),Mpeg4 AVC (aka H.264) would be by far the best OC, but you cant get cheap realtime (or better than) CIF (small video that cams use a lot) AVC/H.264 USB Encoders yet....

digital video content in, digital video content back out, takes almost no CPU power, you could even do that on a 2 watt Efika board http://www.powerdeveloper.org/
, so digital video on the fly for your feed is Obviously the far better anwser if you can use that....

so again, IP webcams are better as they already have onboard hardware encoding codecs included (thats why they cost loads of money),usually its the massive and old mpeg2 codec (use AVC instead) encoder chips i think though.... that then sends this encoded digital stream out on the wire(less) IP you set, be it a wastful unicast IP or a far better Multicast LAN IP (224.0.0.1)

AVC/H.264 IS GOOD for your bandwidth , USE it were ever you can

setting up the streaming is simple enough for one feed, just use VLC in most cases, and use Multicasting to make it far simpler to stream a single video feed to any and all LAN connected PC's or wireless Ipods and the like, from the LAN side.

to take that feed and viewing it over the net should then be as simple as running peter's free java tunnel at the primary WAN connected PC, and another one working as the client tunnel on the other connecting webside PC ,and knowing that ISP given home IP address and port No. to see the feed on the other web side end.

more home feeds just need to be placed on another multicast address or port homeIP:224.0.01, homeIP:224.0.0.2, HomeIP:224.0.0.3 etc

IP cams are better OC, as if you get low power ones, then you power them off a battery and solar cell, or if their wired then a simple powerOverEthernet box and you dont enen need mains power at the cams position 40 foot down the garden,still need to protect and dig in the ethernet cable placed in conduit though.

the reason i say Multcast is simple, one single feed ,many PC's as viewers on the LAN side, so saving much bandwidth and minimum CPU power required to distribute that datastream.

and IF you can program with Rebol scripting or whatever ,a point to multi point Multicasting server app script then theres on reason that i can think of that you couldnt then have many hundreds of webside viewers connecting to that single Multicast video HomeIP:224.0.0.1 feed

but that part escapes me as i know and understand the full tech, but programming and scripting loose me, i do know rebol wan be used very effectivly, but i cant find anyone to write these scripts as a a fully working app guide to help expand on my idea's, so if you can perhaps we might get somewere

the reason im interested in this video streaming is the likes of the NoDPI BT demo, and supplying lots of mobile webcam feeds to all the interested partys sat at home not able to attend and to colect for later , for video PR combilations to help inform others about this DPI kit for profit etc.

and i dont want to rely in any way on 3rd partys or signing up for streaming sites before you or anyone can start their as it happens video feeds, announced on the Phorm thread etc.... we have seen what happens when you rely on companys to professionally record events and release it unedited

webPC<-multicast-tunnel><homePC>VLC-Multicast-Video-Feed<wired-or-wirlessLAN>

http://www.cdt.luth.se/~peppar/progs/mTunnel/
"
[img]Download Failed (1)[/img] multicast Tunnel - mTunnel [img]Download Failed (1)[/img]

The mTunnel is an application that tunnels multicast packets over an unicast UDP channel. Several multicast streams can be sent over the same tunnel while the tunnel will still only use one port. This is useful if tunneling through a firewall.

The applications primary goal is to allow for easy tunneling of multicast over for instance a modem and/or an ISDN connection.

The mTunnel has a built in Web-server allowing for easy access to information about current tunnels. This server listens by default on port 9000 on the machine where started.
The mTunnel also listens on session announcements for easier tunneling of known sessions.

If you download and install this package please send me an email! :-) (peppar@cdt.luth.se.invalid)
The latest public version is 0.3 released 980102.
README Changelog
Download: Windows UNIX
This version is NOT compatible with earlier versions of mTunnel!
I have also written two papers about this application: Paper1 - 1998 Paper2 - 1997
Peter Parnes
-----------------

http://www.videolan.org/vlc/streaming.html
"
Streaming

Overview of the VideoLAN streaming solution

The VideoLAN streaming solution includes two programs:

VLC media player which can be used as a server and as a client to stream and receive network streams. VLC is able to stream all that it can read.
VLS (VideoLAN Server), which can stream MPEG-1, MPEG-2 and MPEG-4 files, DVDs, digital satellite channels, digital terrestial television channels and live videos on the network in unicast or multicast. Most of the VLS functionality can now be found VLC. Usage of VLC instead of VLS is advised.

"

http://www.rebol.org/cgi-bin/cgiwrap...ebcam-viewer.r
see Thumbnail pic below.

http://www.rebol.org/cgi-bin/cgiwrap...ebcam&form=yes

http://www.rebol.com/view-platforms.html

http://www.rebol.org/cgi-bin/cgiwrap...script=proxy.r

http://www.rebol.org/cgi-bin/cgiwrap...erver&form=yes

for anyone that wants to try , heres one of the best fully working Multicast whiteboard rebol example to play with and learn from.

you will need to translate from french to english but keep the scripts intact OC ,thats easy enough theres a seperate link for downloading them, but they seem pritty easy to follow IF you can script already....please try and make my day

http://www.rebolfrance.info/org/arti...multicast.html

Graham M · 05-07-2008, 13:10

*eyes bleed*

You're obviously really into this stuff Popper, nice post

popper · 05-07-2008, 13:16

i just cant get my head around scripting, or id already have made this script for others to use already.

its fun, and as i say, i know the tech, its just that last step (stringing the examples together to produce something that works,) that holds so many idea's back for scripted GUIs with rebol and tcp/Ip/UDP multicasting.

perhaps one day one of you webmasters can take a look at rebol and those scripts and make a fully working client/server multicasting video feed...set of scripts inthe form of plug-in scripts around a working base, to make it far more versatile and usable OC.

its all there above for you , if someone can try thats good at scripting programing.

http://musiclessonz.com/rebol_tutorial.html

Quam256 · 05-07-2008, 15:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by popper

dead easy, the problem people have, is over complicating this stuff.

in effect your just dealing with some form of video input into a PC ,be it USB,PCi,anologue, digital,wireless, whatever.

taking that composit feed (in this case) to the PC using a simple and cheap BT787 Tv card with composit input for instance, and streaming it back out again over tcp:IP /UDP or tunnel with VLC.

OC doing the realtime anologue composit TV input is the killer for your CPU as it needs to encode the composit feed into digital for your Ip streaming later,the faster the PC CPU the better in all things software encoding composit inputs especially the larger screen sizes PAL D1 aka 720x576.

your far better off feeding that composit feed into some form of USB realtime hardware Encoder (reasonably cheap and small/low power now)to the likes of MPeg4 ASP (aka DivX/Xvid),Mpeg4 AVC (aka H.264) would be by far the best OC, but you cant get cheap realtime (or better than) CIF (small video that cams use a lot) AVC/H.264 USB Encoders yet....

digital video content in, digital video content back out, takes almost no CPU power, you could even do that on a 2 watt Efika board http://www.powerdeveloper.org/
, so digital video on the fly for your feed is Obviously the far better anwser if you can use that....

so again, IP webcams are better as they already have onboard hardware encoding codecs included (thats why they cost loads of money),usually its the massive and old mpeg2 codec (use AVC instead) encoder chips i think though.... that then sends this encoded digital stream out on the wire(less) IP you set, be it a wastful unicast IP or a far better Multicast LAN IP (224.0.0.1)

AVC/H.264 IS GOOD for your bandwidth , USE it were ever you can

setting up the streaming is simple enough for one feed, just use VLC in most cases, and use Multicasting to make it far simpler to stream a single video feed to any and all LAN connected PC's or wireless Ipods and the like, from the LAN side.

to take that feed and viewing it over the net should then be as simple as running peter's free java tunnel at the primary WAN connected PC, and another one working as the client tunnel on the other connecting webside PC ,and knowing that ISP given home IP address and port No. to see the feed on the other web side end.

more home feeds just need to be placed on another multicast address or port homeIP:224.0.01, homeIP:224.0.0.2, HomeIP:224.0.0.3 etc

IP cams are better OC, as if you get low power ones, then you power them off a battery and solar cell, or if their wired then a simple powerOverEthernet box and you dont enen need mains power at the cams position 40 foot down the garden,still need to protect and dig in the ethernet cable placed in conduit though.

the reason i say Multcast is simple, one single feed ,many PC's as viewers on the LAN side, so saving much bandwidth and minimum CPU power required to distribute that datastream.

and IF you can program with Rebol scripting or whatever ,a point to multi point Multicasting server app script then theres on reason that i can think of that you couldnt then have many hundreds of webside viewers connecting to that single Multicast video HomeIP:224.0.0.1 feed

but that part escapes me as i know and understand the full tech, but programming and scripting loose me, i do know rebol wan be used very effectivly, but i cant find anyone to write these scripts as a a fully working app guide to help expand on my idea's, so if you can perhaps we might get somewere

the reason im interested in this video streaming is the likes of the NoDPI BT demo, and supplying lots of mobile webcam feeds to all the interested partys sat at home not able to attend and to colect for later , for video PR combilations to help inform others about this DPI kit for profit etc.

and i dont want to rely in any way on 3rd partys or signing up for streaming sites before you or anyone can start their as it happens video feeds, announced on the Phorm thread etc.... we have seen what happens when you rely on companys to professionally record events and release it unedited

webPC<-multicast-tunnel><homePC>VLC-Multicast-Video-Feed<wired-or-wirlessLAN>

http://www.cdt.luth.se/~peppar/progs/mTunnel/
"
[img]Download Failed (1)[/img] multicast Tunnel - mTunnel [img]Download Failed (1)[/img]

The mTunnel is an application that tunnels multicast packets over an unicast UDP channel. Several multicast streams can be sent over the same tunnel while the tunnel will still only use one port. This is useful if tunneling through a firewall.

The applications primary goal is to allow for easy tunneling of multicast over for instance a modem and/or an ISDN connection.

The mTunnel has a built in Web-server allowing for easy access to information about current tunnels. This server listens by default on port 9000 on the machine where started.
The mTunnel also listens on session announcements for easier tunneling of known sessions.

If you download and install this package please send me an email! :-) (peppar@cdt.luth.se.invalid)
The latest public version is 0.3 released 980102.
README Changelog
Download: Windows UNIX
This version is NOT compatible with earlier versions of mTunnel!
I have also written two papers about this application: Paper1 - 1998 Paper2 - 1997
Peter Parnes
-----------------

http://www.videolan.org/vlc/streaming.html
"
Streaming

Overview of the VideoLAN streaming solution

The VideoLAN streaming solution includes two programs:

VLC media player which can be used as a server and as a client to stream and receive network streams. VLC is able to stream all that it can read.
VLS (VideoLAN Server), which can stream MPEG-1, MPEG-2 and MPEG-4 files, DVDs, digital satellite channels, digital terrestial television channels and live videos on the network in unicast or multicast. Most of the VLS functionality can now be found VLC. Usage of VLC instead of VLS is advised.

"

http://www.rebol.org/cgi-bin/cgiwrap...ebcam-viewer.r
see Thumbnail pic below.

http://www.rebol.org/cgi-bin/cgiwrap...ebcam&form=yes

http://www.rebol.com/view-platforms.html

http://www.rebol.org/cgi-bin/cgiwrap...script=proxy.r

http://www.rebol.org/cgi-bin/cgiwrap...erver&form=yes

for anyone that wants to try , heres one of the best fully working Multicast whiteboard rebol example to play with and learn from.

you will need to translate from french to english but keep the scripts intact OC ,thats easy enough theres a seperate link for downloading them, but they seem pritty easy to follow IF you can script already....please try and make my day

http://www.rebolfrance.info/org/arti...multicast.html

Ok.

Dai · 05-07-2008, 17:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quam256

Ok.

FFS!

popper · 05-07-2008, 17:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quam256

Ok.

LOL, OK you being Quam256 already somewhat know the networking side, unicast,multicast tcp:ip/UDP,tunneling terms etc.

so its just down to getting the video,whatever that might be, in a form to stream,realtime record, and push it out the door to your LAN and WAN remote connected client video players YES

you do have more than one PC device on a LAN were you are dont you to test this?

basics:

get a copy of VLC, an Mpeg2 video file of some sort.

you can OC use cli/shell commands to start VLC and feed it all the options your about to do from the VLC gui, but i cant be bothered to look up the syntax right now..... and using the GUI for most average people is easyer anyway for one off tests etc...

start VLC,
file/wizard,
next,
choose,
file/browse,
pick an Mpeg video file, but dont click next yet,
click caching for the default 300, or make it higher if need be later,
OK,
next,
select RTP MultiCast,and enter 224.0.0.1 (or any other MC IP address you want to push the video over the LAN),
Next,
Mpeg TS is already selected (thats a good container, dont need to wory about containers right now, but all DVB-* use it, so its GOOD, and you can do lots with it if you can find the tools, but no matter for now OK),
Next,

TTL, (set it to say 30, because we might need it for the multicast tunneled web part later i think......, but you know more about that MAN networking part than me ),
click SAP Anounce and enter canyouseemeoverthere ,
finish.

your single video is right now streaming over Multicast to any LAN connected devices that can now play it.

on another LAN connected PC....,start another VLC, (or MPC, or MS media player, or Mplayer if your using a non MS OS, whatever ,you get the idea).

click view/playlist,and you should see that canyouseemeoverthere multicast stream announcment,
just click it to play it, done.......

from there ,you just need to take the other points iv said about feeding your webcams into the VLC as your feed, instead of that static Mpeg file you just streamed over multicast, Yes?

and from there, add in the java MC tunnel, to also see that LAN Multicast video stream from any PC on your remote web connection, back to your home:224.0.0.1, is that any clearer?

incase its not clear, you are not feeding that anologue cam you pointed to, into a router, your instead,feeding a cheap analogue TV card (Ã‚Â£15 or so now)with that cam's Anologue output,directly to the composit input of that Tv card....

your Tv PC is then encoding that anologue composit video and putting out that encode as a digital content that has replaced that static Mpeg video file?, Yes

---------- Post added at 17:15 ---------- Previous post was at 17:07 ----------

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaiNasty

FFS!

i DONT Need to be sat here helping people with their problems you know, whats the score with that remark

Quam256 · 05-07-2008, 17:57

Thanks popper for the info .

popper · 05-07-2008, 18:02

patience is easy Cuam, did it make sense to you though, and did you run that quick test and realise its not hard in the slightest after all ,anyone can do it...

OC an IPcam is going to be so much easyer, but far more cash to lay out, but you did say you wanted cheapest, and anologue and PC software encoding is as cheap as your going to get for a trial and understanding the basic idea's.

you can always replace that anologue cam and cheap Tv composit-in with digital feeds, be it those realtime USB encoders, or IPcams and night vision IPcams in your case later....