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Brexit: Article 50 to be triggered 29th March!
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Old 19-03-2017, 11:36   #586
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Re: Brexit

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Originally Posted by TheDaddy View Post
Just been listening to this on the wireless

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7637176.html

Who voted for this, come on own up

Nothing to do with Brexit voters. Leading Brexiteers wanted guaranteed rights for EU citizens after the referendum took place.


May tried to get this sorted before article 50 was triggered, but the EU refused Blame the United States of Europe for that one.
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Old 19-03-2017, 12:32   #587
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Re: Brexit

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Originally Posted by passingbat View Post
Nothing to do with Brexit voters. Leading Brexiteers wanted guaranteed rights for EU citizens after the referendum took place.


May tried to get this sorted before article 50 was triggered, but the EU refused Blame the United States of Europe for that one.
Maybe it's nothing to do with the EU rights guarantee. Maybe they just don't feel welcome and now see better opportunities elsewhere. There have been many racist incidents targeted at East Europeans, all stirred up by the Brexit vote. It's encouraged the worst section of our society. The NHS is finished and our economy doomed if immigrant workers leave. Time we valued them.
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Old 19-03-2017, 13:02   #588
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Re: Brexit

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Originally Posted by Mr K View Post
Maybe it's nothing to do with the EU rights guarantee. Maybe they just don't feel welcome and now see better opportunities elsewhere. There have been many racist incidents targeted at East Europeans, all stirred up by the Brexit vote. It's encouraged the worst section of our society. The NHS is finished and our economy doomed if immigrant workers leave. Time we valued them.
Parliament should have made the guarantee unilaterally as the wiser and more experienced House of Lords advised they do. It was the morally and economically wise choice and would have put the UK in a positive light for the negotiations.
The uncertainty cannot be good for Europeans living in the UK and vice versa. However, the link to hate crimes and the Brexit vote has not been proven and a widely-reported report on this was shown to be flawed.

---------- Post added at 13:01 ---------- Previous post was at 12:56 ----------

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Originally Posted by Damien View Post
People look at the NHS but another area of concern are social care workers. They are many from Eastern Europe who are carers for people with serious conditions. No idea if we're losing them but that would be a big problem because it's a very difficult job that pays peanuts.
That's one reason why it's very hard to have a Soviet-style top-down quotas system for immigrants.
You end up employing lots of bureaucrats to judge on a job-type-by-job-type-basis if the UK needs Europeans to do vitally important jobs. This deprives those bureaucrats from doing vitally important work themselves and the country is less productive.

---------- Post added at 13:02 ---------- Previous post was at 13:01 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by passingbat View Post
Nothing to do with Brexit voters. Leading Brexiteers wanted guaranteed rights for EU citizens after the referendum took place.
May tried to get this sorted before article 50 was triggered, but the EU refused Blame the United States of Europe for that one.
The EU cannot stop the UK granting continued rights to EU27 citizens to work and reside in the UK.
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Old 19-03-2017, 13:24   #589
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Re: Brexit

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Originally Posted by 1andrew1 View Post


The EU cannot stop the UK granting continued rights to EU27 citizens to work and reside in the UK.

Where is your condemnation of the EU for not quickly responding to May's offer to get it sorted straight away?
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Old 19-03-2017, 15:47   #590
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Re: Brexit

The EU opposed the gaurantee off rights for respective groups of citizens making it a part of the wider negotiating process and like it or not but no one in their right mind makes a concession on an issue before negotiations start. As has been said it's funny that theresa may and uk gov are getting grief about this but none is directed towards the EU that have created this issue and were the intransigent party in this, it's the EU playing games with citizens rights not the UK so direct your feelings to them.
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Old 19-03-2017, 17:03   #591
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Re: Brexit

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Originally Posted by RizzyKing View Post
The EU opposed the gaurantee off rights for respective groups of citizens making it a part of the wider negotiating process and like it or not but no one in their right mind makes a concession on an issue before negotiations start. As has been said it's funny that theresa may and uk gov are getting grief about this but none is directed towards the EU that have created this issue and were the intransigent party in this, it's the EU playing games with citizens rights not the UK so direct your feelings to them.


Sadly, that is asking too much for people in love with the EU. Cannot fathom why people cherish a corrupt, imbalanced and failing entity.
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Old 19-03-2017, 18:44   #592
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Re: Brexit

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Originally Posted by Mick View Post


Sadly, that is asking too much for people in love with the EU. Cannot fathom why people cherish a corrupt, imbalanced and failing entity.
Thought this was about brexit, not the british gov.
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Old 19-03-2017, 18:58   #593
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Re: Brexit

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Originally Posted by noel43 View Post
Thought this was about brexit, not the british gov.
Ahh, funny, not. I was actually discussing Brexit and the failing EU.
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Old 19-03-2017, 19:22   #594
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Re: Brexit

To be fair. I'm despairing at the conservatives atm.....and I'm a paid up party member.
Still, could be worse......I could be a member of the labour party
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Old 19-03-2017, 21:15   #595
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Re: Brexit

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Originally Posted by Ramrod View Post
To be fair. I'm despairing at the conservatives atm.....and I'm a paid up party member.
You've done the hard part. Admitting it. There is help out there, #toryboysanomynous.
Don't despair, you can get through this.
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Old 19-03-2017, 22:29   #596
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Re: Brexit

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Originally Posted by noel43 View Post
Thought this was about brexit, not the british gov.
lol, I thought I was back on the Trump thread for a moment.

---------- Post added at 22:24 ---------- Previous post was at 22:17 ----------

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Where is your condemnation of the EU for not quickly responding to May's offer to get it sorted straight away?
That's a bit of a Fox & Friends type phrasing!
The EU's position has always been clear - no negotiations until we invoke Article 50. Those are the rules of the club that we have to abide with with if we decide to leave. And we helped draw up those very rules!
The British Government has the opportunity to give those EU citizens within her borders the comfort of knowing that they can still live and work here post-Brexit. Fom the article posted earlier this looks like it would help the NHS and in turn, you and me. The UK Government has decided not to do this so I hope this can get sorted out early on in negotiations for a mutually beneficial solution.

---------- Post added at 22:29 ---------- Previous post was at 22:24 ----------

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Originally Posted by Ramrod View Post
To be fair. I'm despairing at the conservatives atm.....and I'm a paid up party member.
Still, could be worse......I could be a member of the labour party
The Conservatives need a good opposition to keep them on their toes and to help them to raise their game.
They're too obsessed with pet projects like grammar schools and to placating Daily Mail leader-writers. In the background, council services are creaking, the NHS is struggling, we've got aircraft carriers but no aircraft on them, and there are train strikes every week. (But I still love the UK in case that all sounds a big negative!, lol)
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Old 19-03-2017, 22:52   #597
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Re: Brexit

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Originally Posted by 1andrew1 View Post
lol, I thought I was back on the Trump thread for a moment.

---------- Post added at 22:24 ---------- Previous post was at 22:17 ----------

That's a bit of a Fox & Friends type phrasing!
The EU's position has always been clear - no negotiations until we invoke Article 50. Those are the rules of the club that we have to abide with with if we decide to leave. And we helped draw up those very rules! .


All my own words, I can assure you.


Still waiting for your condemnation of the EU. Hiding behind 'the rules' is nonsense.
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Old 19-03-2017, 23:06   #598
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Re: Brexit

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Originally Posted by passingbat View Post
All my own words, I can assure you.


Still waiting for your condemnation of the EU. Hiding behind 'the rules' is nonsense.
They can't start doing side deals, they're terrified of us doing deals or bribing individual states prior to article 50 being triggered and with good reason imo as it's exactly what I'd be doing right now and would've been doing for months. Besides which if Mrs May had said you can all stay with the caveat of a reciprocal agreement once negotiations started we'd be the good guys and it might have taken some of the sharper edges of once negotiations start.

---------- Post added at 23:06 ---------- Previous post was at 23:02 ----------

Quote:
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People look at the NHS but another area of concern are social care workers. They are many from Eastern Europe who are carers for people with serious conditions. No idea if we're losing them but that would be a big problem because it's a very difficult job that pays peanuts.
They're not going anywhere, low paid and unskilled have few options and will just have to suck it up and wait and see, qualified nurses on the other hand are in high demand in lots of places, don't worry about losing them, we can just go back to raping the third world of theirs
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Old 19-03-2017, 23:18   #599
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Re: Brexit

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Originally Posted by passingbat View Post
All my own words, I can assure you.


Still waiting for your condemnation of the EU. Hiding behind 'the rules' is nonsense.
I've provided my response. All I can add is that it's the UK that's leaving the EU and not the other way round.

Theresa May is doing exactly the right thing here, demonstrating some goodwill to Europe.
Britain and Germany set to sign defence co-operation deal
Quote:
Financial Times The British prime minister is seeking to emphasise Britain’s big contribution to European security to gain goodwill among her 27 EU partners amid concerns that the Brexit negotiations could prove very tough and might even break down.

One commentator on the above article "ItalianStallion" has made some astute points:

Quote:
Some comments below suggest that the UK doesn't have many bargaining chips and this won't make a difference. I agree you don't have many. But proactive positive actions will help. This is one. A pre-emptive guarantee to the rights of EU residents in UK would be another. Firm statement that the UK pays its debts [but need to understand the amounts], would be another.
If you treat this as a zero sum negotiation or card game, you will fail. Be generous, and show that actually having the UK as a strong partner is in everyone's interest and you may succeed.
May could start by doing a strong interview in the Mail et al making it clear that their criticism of the EU is not policy and is silly.
Advice you don't want - but sometimes this is the best sort.


---------- Post added at 23:18 ---------- Previous post was at 23:09 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy View Post
They can't start doing side deals, they're terrified of us doing deals or bribing individual states prior to article 50 being triggered and with good reason imo as it's exactly what I'd be doing right now and would've been doing for months. Besides which if Mrs May had said you can all stay with the caveat of a reciprocal agreement once negotiations started we'd be the good guys and it might have taken some of the sharper edges of once negotiations start.
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Old 19-03-2017, 23:55   #600
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Re: Brexit

They need to get rid of that Junk head he's the problem among a few others. This is a test case for leaving as it's never been done before and we are seeing how well the EU treat those for doing it.
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