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Brexit: Article 50 Has Been Triggered !
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Old 09-03-2017, 17:22   #466
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Re: Brexit

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Originally Posted by 1andrew1 View Post
Interesting article in the FT about what kind of trade the country wants after we leave the UK.

Economists for Brexit has been renamed Economists for Free Trade which reflects its beliefs of no barriers to trade in the UK. The organisation's Patrick Minford wrote last year “Over time . . . it seems likely that we would mostly eliminate manufacturing, but this shouldn’t scare us.”


To read the article, google Brexit campaigners shift focus to global free trade or subscribers can visit https://www.ft.com/content/f2a07810-...8-3700c5664d30

---------- Post added at 16:51 ---------- Previous post was at 16:36 ----------


The EU's imperfect, I'll be the first to admit that. Greece is Greece and it should never have been allowed to join the Eurozone, but that's another matter. But compared to countries like the US which employs the President's son-in-law the EU is a shining beacon of democracy. And I lose track of people who say that the EU can't get anything down as countries need to vote on things, and the next minute complain it's undemocratic and run by bureaucrats whilst forgetting there is a Parliament!
In economic terms, we pay about 0.6% of our GDP and we get back a 10% larger GDP. I'd say that's a good return on investment.
thats not how you spell bureaucracy
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Old 09-03-2017, 18:03   #467
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Re: Brexit

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Originally Posted by 1andrew1 View Post


But compared to countries like the US which employs the President's son-in-law the EU is a shining beacon of democracy.

If you want to willingly surrender your National Sovereignty to a Federal States of Europe, which means progressively surrendering Laws, Taxes and Borders to people who are not directly elected, then you could be correct, although wasn't there some issue with getting the books signed off?


But I don't want to be ruled by unelected people and lose British control of Laws, Taxes and Borders. I don't think you will find many UK citizens that do.


It seems to me that you're happy to trade our Sovereignty. I'm not.


And What has Trump got to do with it? He was democratically elected, more than can be said for the EU leaders. Here's an anti Trump news outlet saying that it is legal to appoint his son in law.


https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/21/u...ment.html?_r=0
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Old 09-03-2017, 18:21   #468
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Re: Brexit

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Originally Posted by passingbat View Post
If you want to willingly surrender your National Sovereignty to a Federal States of Europe, which means progressively surrendering Laws, Taxes and Borders to people who are not directly elected, then you could be correct, although wasn't there some issue with getting the books signed off?


But I don't want to be ruled by unelected people and lose British control of Laws, Taxes and Borders. I don't think you will find many UK citizens that do.


It seems to me that you're happy to trade our Sovereignty. I'm not.


And What has Trump got to do with it? He was democratically elected, more than can be said for the EU leaders. Here's an anti Trump news outlet saying that it is legal to appoint his son in law.


https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/21/u...ment.html?_r=0


Clearly some people only respect democracy when it yields what they want.
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Old 09-03-2017, 18:37   #469
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Re: BREXIT

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Originally Posted by 1andrew1 View Post
This poll puts leave at 51%.
https://twitter.com/remain_leave
My poll at work is 98% leave.

The sooner we leave and the sooner Jimmy Krankie resigns the happier I'll be.

We must do a hard Brexit so the EU can't force us into things we don't want.

Can you really see Audi, BMW, Mercedes, Seat, Fiat etc pulling out of the UK and not selling any cars.

We survived before, we'll survive after.
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Old 09-03-2017, 18:42   #470
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Re: Brexit

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Originally Posted by passingbat View Post


And What has Trump got to do with it? He was democratically elected, more than can be said for the EU leaders. Here's an anti Trump news outlet saying that it is legal to appoint his son in law.


https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/21/u...ment.html?_r=0
Not entirely true about being unelected, same as the accounts not being signed of since 1926 or whenever isn't really true, still explaining it properly doesn't make for those short, snappy headlines we so enjoy that don't stretch our attention spans for to long so we can get back to important stuff like Facebook or cats on slides.
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Old 09-03-2017, 19:44   #471
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Re: BREXIT

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Originally Posted by Hom3r View Post
We must do a hard Brexit so the EU can't force us into things we don't want.

.


Imperative in my view.
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Old 09-03-2017, 20:08   #472
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Re: Brexit

Quote:
Originally Posted by passingbat View Post
If you want to willingly surrender your National Sovereignty to a Federal States of Europe, which means progressively surrendering Laws, Taxes and Borders to people who are not directly elected, then you could be correct, although wasn't there some issue with getting the books signed off?

But I don't want to be ruled by unelected people and lose British control of Laws, Taxes and Borders. I don't think you will find many UK citizens that do.

It seems to me that you're happy to trade our Sovereignty. I'm not.

And What has Trump got to do with it? He was democratically elected, more than can be said for the EU leaders. Here's an anti Trump news outlet saying that it is legal to appoint his son in law.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/21/u...ment.html?_r=0
The debate has moved on. Others are trying to drag us back to mid-June 2016's debate which is unproductive.
The debate now is for free trade or not free trade.

---------- Post added at 20:06 ---------- Previous post was at 20:04 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by passingbat View Post
Imperative in my view.
Imperative if we want a break-up of the UK. I don't, but I accept some see it as an acceptable price to pay.

---------- Post added at 20:08 ---------- Previous post was at 20:06 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy View Post
Not entirely true about being unelected, same as the accounts not being signed of since 1926 or whenever isn't really true, still explaining it properly doesn't make for those short, snappy headlines we so enjoy that don't stretch our attention spans for to long so we can get back to important stuff like Facebook or cats on slides.
lol, nailed it perfectly!
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Old 09-03-2017, 21:09   #473
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Re: Brexit

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 View Post
The debate has moved on. Others are trying to drag us back to mid-June 2016's debate which is unproductive.
The debate now is for free trade or not free trade.[COLOR="Silver"]
we'll let you know when it's moved on, and what it's moved on to, if in fact it moves at all
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Last edited by Hugh; 09-03-2017 at 21:41.
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Old 09-03-2017, 22:08   #474
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Re: Brexit

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Originally Posted by papa smurf View Post
we'll let you know when it's moved on, and what it's moved on to, if in fact it moves at all
like Brexit itself.
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Old 09-03-2017, 22:17   #475
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Re: Brexit

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Originally Posted by 1andrew1 View Post
like Brexit itself.
i think we are somewhere between stale and mate with a smattering of dog chasing its own tail .
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Old 09-03-2017, 23:03   #476
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Re: Brexit

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Originally Posted by 1andrew1 View Post
The debate has moved on. Others are trying to drag us back to mid-June 2016's debate which is unproductive.
The debate now is for free trade or not free trade.

And that is directly related to sovereignty. That is what you don't seem to understand. To stay in the single market would mean surrendering some of our control over Laws, immigration and tax policies. As I've said several times, Sovereignty is eroded via the back door of trade deals. By advocating the single market, you are advocating erosion of British Sovereignty.


We need to be out of the single market and negotiating the best trade deal we can. And when you are negotiating, the other side needs to know, in no uncertain terms, that you will walk away if you don't like the deal they offer.

Last edited by passingbat; 09-03-2017 at 23:20.
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Old 09-03-2017, 23:08   #477
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Re: Brexit

I have no problem with the scots having another independence vote as long as the rest of the UK gets a vote on if they want scotland in the union anymore. It was meant to be a once in a generation vote according to everyone up north now clearly it will be something the snp kick off at the slightest excuse and that is a disruption we do not need. I'm also betting if the rest got a vote the snp would go very quiet and a lot less enthusiastic it's easy to keep having disruptive referenda when there is no consequence.
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Old 10-03-2017, 00:44   #478
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Re: Brexit

Quote:
Originally Posted by passingbat View Post
And that is directly related to sovereignty. That is what you don't seem to understand. To stay in the single market would mean surrendering some of our control over Laws, immigration and tax policies. As I've said several times, Sovereignty is eroded via the back door of trade deals. By advocating the single market, you are advocating erosion of British Sovereignty.

We need to be out of the single market and negotiating the best trade deal we can. And when you are negotiating, the other side needs to know, in uncertain terms, that you will walk away if you don't like the deal they offer.
Sorry, in connection with the article I posted I meant there's now a debate in the Brexit camp about trade deals full stop, not just with the EU.
Do we:
- Go for Economists for Free Trade's approach. They want no tariffs. But their Patrick Minford has said this will cause the end of UK manufacturing.
- Go for a more interventionist, protectionist economy with tariffs which is likely to leave the country a lot poorer.

In context, polling by Ipsos Mori found that 45% of Britons thought single market access should be prioritised, while 39% prioritised control of immigration. Free trade is linked to granting work visas to trading partners. India has already made clear it would like more immigration into the UK as part of any new deal and other countries are likely to want this too. How will this go down with the electorate?

---------- Post added 10-03-2017 at 00:44 ---------- Previous post was 09-03-2017 at 23:30 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by RizzyKing View Post
I have no problem with the scots having another independence vote as long as the rest of the UK gets a vote on if they want scotland in the union anymore. It was meant to be a once in a generation vote according to everyone up north now clearly it will be something the snp kick off at the slightest excuse and that is a disruption we do not need. I'm also betting if the rest got a vote the snp would go very quiet and a lot less enthusiastic it's easy to keep having disruptive referenda when there is no consequence.
A Scottish refrendum is now on the cards, though whether the SNP will win it is unknown. Latest polls are 50% remain, 50% leave the UK. As Brexit and Trump have shown, we shouldn't rule out another poll upset.
Nicola Sturgeon is aiming for late 2018 but Downing Street is hoping to delay a referendum until after Brexit. Having it half-way through the Brexit negotiations sounds a bit disruptive but maybe that's the plan.
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Old 10-03-2017, 01:39   #479
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Re: Brexit

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 View Post
A Scottish refrendum is now on the cards, though whether the SNP will win it is unknown. Latest polls are 50% remain, 50% leave the UK. As Brexit and Trump have shown, we shouldn't rule out another poll upset.
Nicola Sturgeon is aiming for late 2018 but Downing Street is hoping to delay a referendum until after Brexit. Having it half-way through the Brexit negotiations sounds a bit disruptive but maybe that's the plan.
Nicola the fish can aim for anything, it doesn't mean she'll get it so no cards are on the table.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy View Post
Not entirely true about being unelected, same as the accounts not being signed of since 1926 or whenever isn't really true, still explaining it properly doesn't make for those short, snappy headlines we so enjoy that don't stretch our attention spans for to long so we can get back to important stuff like Facebook or cats on slides.
Your usual bs. The EU’s Court of Auditors didn't produce (public) REPORTS until 1995.

Since then not one report has stated that the accounts are free from "material error".

Link

Link

Link


Quote:
Conclusion

Auditors say the accounts are accurate and have been since 2007. But they record significant errors in how money is paid, and this has been the case since 1995.
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Old 10-03-2017, 02:18   #480
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Re: Brexit

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Originally Posted by pip08456 View Post

Your usual bs. The EU’s Court of Auditors didn't produce (public) REPORTS until 1995.

Since then not one report has stated that the accounts are free from "material error".

Link

Link

Link
As usual humour is something that happens to other people isn't it pip, like that time you went to the effort of proving to us articles 1-49 didn't need to be triggered one after the other and in order before we could trigger article 50, still thanks for providing links for anyone who can tear themselves away from cats on slides for a moment that didn't know the accounts have in fact been signed of, lots.
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