Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]

[rryles]

Originally Posted by madslug

Even if the hosting providers are also asked to keep mail logs there are still all the private mailservers people keep in their garages.

Presumably if you have a private mail server in your garage you will be subject to the same requirements as any other provider. Of course enforcing it is another matter. Don't forget the mail servers hosted outside of the EU too (both private and public).

Personally I hope they ask for a list of my e-mail addresses. I have over 30,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 of them!

[warescouse]

Originally Posted by mark777

-



And I know who was pushing the rumours.

I wonder what that denial will do to the share price now.

The real story here is in the response phorm feels the need to make.

In my opinion I wonder if they are trying to avoid the full heat of the US Congress inquisition and are doing another 121Media ContextPlus/PeopleOnPage type runner from the USA.

[rryles]

Originally Posted by warescouse

In my opinion I wonder if they are trying to avoid the full heat of the US Congress inquisition and are doing another 121Media ContextPlus/PeopleOnPage type runner from the USA.

Abandoning the US market would be a very painful thing for phorm to do because they see it as having huge potential. Unfortunately for phorm its looking like they will be forced out of the US and the EU. That's two big slices of the global market taken away from them.

[Deko]

Maybe someone could help me here.


But i am sure i read somewhere that the BCS would kick out members if they were involved with phorm type stuff. This is because of the BCS rules.


now we just need to find out who involved is a member of the BCS ???

Edit: found it.

http://www.bcs.org/server.php?show=ConWebDoc.18993

In conclusion, David Clarke added, "BCS members involved in work of this kind should think very carefully about the implications of these systems and the BCS professional code of conduct they have agreed to. Failure to abide by that code could lead to expulsion. Members should always be mindful of current good practice such as opt-in, and their duty to the public, as they implement systems like this."

[BetBlowWhistler]

Originally Posted by oblonsky

Are you suggesting that ISPs capture IP traffic and use DPI to store email traffic data even between 2 third-party servers? Surely this would be illegal under UK and EU law, given my understanding of what actually constitutes "traffic data" (as opposed to what MPs and HO officials would LIKE to include as traffic data).

Or are you simply hinting that one end of the transaction may be using an ISP server?

Anyhow, this is getting OT and there's loads to be read about this debate on other newsgroups and forums. Apologies.

What I was suggesting is that it is trivial to amend the DPI to siphon off port 25 and 110 traffic as well as port 80. Scan for keywords etc. My point was that even if you have your own mailserver, the data still traverses the ISP's network and is subject to DPI.

[Rchivist]

Originally Posted by Deko

Maybe someone could help me here.


But i am sure i read somewhere that the BCS would kick out members if they were involved with phorm type stuff. This is because of the BCS rules.


now we just need to find out who involved is a member of the BCS ???

Edit: found it.

http://www.bcs.org/server.php?show=ConWebDoc.18993

Although organisations generally can't tell you who IS a member because of DPA they are often willing to give you a negative.
Question - Is Dr Mengele a member of the Red Cross?
Answer - We do not have any record of Dr Mengele being a member of the Red Cross either now or in the past.

So you could make your own list and then ask if any of the people are NOT members, and also of course give the BCS your reason for asking, and remind them of the quote, and provide some checkable evidence of the people's involvement with DPI and covert trials.

So I would be inclined to list people like Stratis Scleparis for example (currently CTO at Phorm, formerly CTO at BT Retail), and the Phorm list, including Hugo Drayton, Kent Ertugrul, and of course a fair collection of BT Retail execs, as well as the current CEO who headed up BT Retail at the time of the secret trials.

[Dephormation]

Originally Posted by R Jones

Although organisations generally can't tell you who IS a member because of DPA they are often willing to give you a negative.

If you look on the BCS site you'll find details of members (like me) who've opted to make their membership details public (allowing you to positively confirm membership).

http://wam.bcs.org/wam/memberdirectory.aspx

When I lasted looked for significant names, I didn't find any I recognised, but there are obviously more names known now.

[oblonsky]

Originally Posted by Dephormation

If you look on the BCS site you'll find details of members (like me) who've opted to make their membership details public (allowing you to positively confirm membership).

http://wam.bcs.org/wam/memberdirectory.aspx

When I lasted looked for significant names, I didn't find any I recognised, but there are obviously more names known now.

But this only works for chartered members and above, doesn't it?

[SpinyNorman]

The services were transparent to users

I think They use the definition from dictionary.com

7. Computers. (of a process or software) operating in such a way as to not be perceived by users.

http://dictionary.reference.com/sear...parent&x=0&y=0

[Wildie]

one thing about using dpi to pick up key words will it be in context? like "they was bombing it down the hill on their bikes"
Two key words would they be taken out of context, you get ads servered up for a bike and the sas kicking your front door in.. software is not that clever is, so it will be tagged and viewed by a human thinking it`s all coded text they reading.

[Ravenheart]

Originally Posted by SpinyNorman

I think They use the definition from dictionary.com



http://dictionary.reference.com/sear...parent&x=0&y=0

That's an excellent way of describing it Spiny Norman, and perfectly sums up BT and Phorm's activities.

Originally Posted by Wildie

one thing about using dpi to pick up key words will it be in context? like "they was bombing it down the hill on their bikes"
Two key words would they be taken out of context, you get ads servered up for a bike and the sas kicking your front door in.. software is not that clever is, so it will be tagged and viewed by a human thinking it`s all coded text they reading.

I've said before - one of my biggest passions is Fender Telecaster guitars and they are commonly called Tele's. I expect to be bombarded with adverts for Panasonic TV's which are of no interest to me.

Bear in mind that the internet is global and i have to wonder what Phorm will make of the American use of the word fanny - somewhat different to the one we are used to.

[phormwatch]

http://jennielaw.blogspot.com/2008/0...m-filling.html

[mark777]

Originally Posted by phormwatch

http://jennielaw.blogspot.com/2008/0...m-filling.html

So. Target people who regularly take part in on-line surveys to be the Phorm guinea-pigs? Offer a money incentive?

Makes sense from the BT point of view, but they can never claim it to be a typical cross-section of the UK public.

Good find. I hope she follows up with more information if she follows it through.

[phormwatch]

Text version of 'Open Letter to Internet Businesses'. I'll create a PDF version soon.

http://nodpi.wikispaces.com/Propaganda2