Virgin Media to Double Broadband Speed - Page 62

Kushan · 15-01-2012, 15:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maggy J

You still aren't being charged to be upgraded so by anyone's definition it FREE.

I'd hate to think what your definition of free might be.

That's not strictly true. Now I don't disagree with what you're saying (you're getting an upgrade at no extra cost for sure), however it's not strictly "free" because the monthly subscription goes towards the cost of the upgrade.

There is a saying, "there's no such thing as a free lunch" and I believe it applies here, but the important thing to remember is that Virgin didn't necessarily have to upgrade anyone, certainly at no additional cost - so it's still appropriate to be somewhat "grateful".

Kymmy · 15-01-2012, 15:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kushan

That's not strictly true. Now I don't disagree with what you're saying (you're getting an upgrade at no extra cost for sure), however it's not strictly "free" because the monthly subscription goes towards the cost of the upgrade.

Yet you contract for a fixed speed at a fixed price so anything above that speed at the same price is by all definition free, whether VM want to pay for it out of their profits is another matter

Kushan · 15-01-2012, 15:44

Except it's not "free" because you still have to pay the initial price to get it. If it was truly free, Virgin would give you it at no cost at all. However, we are arguing semantics here and the important thing is that you specifically said "free by anyone's definition". I was merely pointing out that not everyone has the same definition of "free".

FUN FACT: Virgin specifically tells its agents not to use the term "free", but rather "complimentary" (particularly with Value added services like email, security, etc.) because both terms have slightly different meanings. So even Virgin themselves have a different definition of "free".

Stephen · 15-01-2012, 15:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kushan

That's not strictly true. Now I don't disagree with what you're saying (you're getting an upgrade at no extra cost for sure), however it's not strictly "free" because the monthly subscription goes towards the cost of the upgrade.

There is a saying, "there's no such thing as a free lunch" and I believe it applies here, but the important thing to remember is that Virgin didn't necessarily have to upgrade anyone, certainly at no additional cost - so it's still appropriate to be somewhat "grateful".

Eh? It is free in the sense that what you contracted for, eg 30 or 50mb and you pay the fee for that. However you will be paying the same monthly fee but getting double the speed. That is double your connection at no extra cost which is a free upgrade.

Nopanic · 15-01-2012, 15:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kushan

Except it's not "free" because you still have to pay the initial price to get it. If it was truly free, Virgin would give you it at no cost at all. However, we are arguing semantics here and the important thing is that you specifically said "free by anyone's definition". I was merely pointing out that not everyone has the same definition of "free".

FUN FACT: Virgin specifically tells its agents not to use the term "free", but rather "complimentary" (particularly with Value added services like email, security, etc.) because both terms have slightly different meanings. So even Virgin themselves have a different definition of "free".

So would you, using that logic, say that should I get a car and in three years the dealer gives me four new tyres for "free", they are in fact not free because I bought the car ?

So if you buy a house .. and VM give you free services, they're not free .. because you bought the house

Kymmy · 15-01-2012, 15:50

I've contracted for 50mb in March, when that goes up in March/April I'll be getting more than my contract states I should get, I'm not paying for any extra so it's free for the other 50mb.. The fact that someone else can get the same new speed for the same money is irrelavant to my contract

Kushan · 15-01-2012, 15:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen

Eh? It is free in the sense that what you contracted for, eg 30 or 50mb and you pay the fee for that. However you will be paying the same monthly fee but getting double the speed. That is double your connection at no extra cost which is a free upgrade.

As I said, we're debating that not everyone strictly sees it as "free" as the money for the upgrade came from monthy fees - the difference is that Virgin has decided to upgrade everyone rather than pocket it. I'm simply saying that it's not strictly absolutely free, but it is worth praising Virgin for doing it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nopanic

So would you, using that logic, say that should I get a car and in three years the dealer gives me four new tyres for "free", they are in fact not free because I bought the car ?

So if you buy a house .. and VM give you free services, they're not free .. because you bought the house

That is correct and as I said before, by Virgin's own rules they're complimentary to your purchases. The point I'm making isn't that something is or isn't free, it's that not everyone uses the same definition of "free". Due to that earlier comment of "Free by anyone's definition".

Here's a good example of what I'm talking about - tesco does this thing all the time and it really annoys me - they'll have an offer on like a BOGOF, except they'll jack up the price of the item so you end up paying about the same as you would for two of them the week before. Is the second item free? Well, sure, it's free all right but at the same time it's not really free. Now that's not meant to be in any way analogous as to what Virgin is doing, merely showing that "free" isn't always "free".

Kymmy · 15-01-2012, 16:05

Can I remind members that when off-topic warnings are given we don't expect to have to edit messages to remove off-topic content. As such the whole of the last message has been deleted. Any more and we will infract due to the amount of warnings already given lately on the forum.

MaverickJesus · 15-01-2012, 16:07

The extra speed is free. As the extra speed is the 'upgrade' and there is no upgrade is free, the upgrade is by definition free. There is no debating semantics, you're just wrong.

Your example has exactly nothing in common with what Virgin is doing? Baffling.

jb66 · 15-01-2012, 16:08

Its free

RichardCoulter · 15-01-2012, 16:15

I personally don't need the extra speed as I have access to high speed BB at various workplaces, should I need it.

What would be the best way to save money by "downgrading" to my existing (ish) speed after the upgrade?

Stephen · 15-01-2012, 16:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kushan

As I said, we're debating that not everyone strictly sees it as "free" as the money for the upgrade came from monthy fees - the difference is that Virgin has decided to upgrade everyone rather than pocket it. I'm simply saying that it's not strictly absolutely free, but it is worth praising Virgin for doing it.

That is correct and as I said before, by Virgin's own rules they're complimentary to your purchases. The point I'm making isn't that something is or isn't free, it's that not everyone uses the same definition of "free". Due to that earlier comment of "Free by anyone's definition".

Here's a good example of what I'm talking about - tesco does this thing all the time and it really annoys me - they'll have an offer on like a BOGOF, except they'll jack up the price of the item so you end up paying about the same as you would for two of them the week before. Is the second item free? Well, sure, it's free all right but at the same time it's not really free. Now that's not meant to be in any way analogous as to what Virgin is doing, merely showing that "free" isn't always "free".

No it is free in this sense. Your price isn't going up. So it's extra for nothing. The money for the upgrades doesn't come from your monthly payment. That just pays for what you are already getting.

Chrysalis · 15-01-2012, 16:44

I think the best way to describe it is the upgrade process itself is free.

However the upgraded service isnt free by any means as there is still a monthly subscription fee to pay. The best way to describe that is its 'inclusive'.

What I didnt like was someone telling me I am ungrateful because I am not patting VM on the back. Someone in a congested area isnt getting upgraded speed they just simply getting a new config to their modem. The only thing upgrading their speed is extra capacity not a new config. VM certianly dont do things like this out of charity, in this case its been done as a reaction to what BT have done, in the past its been done as a way to obtain new customers as its cheaper than expanding their footprint.

What maggy may not realise is things like this can be a service downgrade, a area with just about good enough utilisation to keep gamers happy will probably tip over the edge with this and areas already congested will get an effective speed reduction.

Skie · 15-01-2012, 18:45

If you want to look at it from a contractual perspective, Virgin have provided regular speed increases as part of their natural service progression over the years. I think this will be the 4th one since I first joined Telewest.

Any judge in the country would look at a regular event like that and say it was reasonable for a customer to expect as part of the package in the future that there would be speed increases. Even if its not in the "legal stuff" it can be taken as part of your contract. You would find it hard to demand they do one in the future if VM secretly decided never to do them again, but with a crack legal team you could probably use it as a reason to terminate a contract early.

But they are nice bonuses either way :p

**Hugh** · 15-01-2012, 19:18

Let's just change two words, and see how that reads....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skie

If you want to look at it from a contractual perspective, Npower have provided regular price increases as part of their natural service progression over the years. I think this will be the 4th one since I first joined Npower.

Any judge in the country would look at a regular event like that and say it was reasonable for a customer to expect as part of the package in the future that there would be price increases. Even if its not in the "legal stuff" it can be taken as part of your contract. You would find it hard to demand they do one in the future if Npower secretly decided never to do them again, but with a crack legal team you could probably use it as a reason to terminate a contract early.

But they are nice bonuses either way :p