Eurozone will collapse...

Newsnight is reporting that Spain will announce that it needs bailing out tomorrow afternoon. This is the part where the crisis gets very, very, very serious.

[Osem]

You really wouldn't think so would you. Let's have some more meetings about meetings and tinker around the edges...

I reckon this is going to be the biggest European crisis since WWII and I really fear for the consequences if the Eurocrats don't bite the bullet and accept that the Eurozone in its current form doesn't work. Even if they do that, there's going to be plenty of pain and misery spread far and wide for a very long time. I only hope it doesn't lead to mass social unrest or worse but anyone who doubts that it could ought to reflect on history.

Someone said yesterday in one of the many items I've read on the subject, the European Project is the life's work, salary and pension for many of those now in charge of it. Admitting it's game over - and was flawed from the outset - is simply too much to ask of them. They are fundamentally compromised and frankly are the last people who should be making the decisions right now. This is not going to end in any controlled fashion. It will simply stagger on until it blows apart at the seams. And then we shall see what we shall see.

If I had any savings, I'd be tempted. But as I've been going hand-to-mouth pretty much since this whole debacle started, I don't have anything to lose.

[Hom3r]

Spain asks for cash.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-18382659

Well if they worked rather than take a siesta when it's a bit hot.

Why don't we give all our taxes to europe.

It's about time well upsticks and left Europe behind us, then all those that come here and leech of the British benefit system can be told to sod off home.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Chris

Someone said yesterday in one of the many items I've read on the subject, the European Project is the life's work, salary and pension for many of those now in charge of it. Admitting it's game over - and was flawed from the outset - is simply too much to ask of them. They are fundamentally compromised and frankly are the last people who should be making the decisions right now. This is not going to end in any controlled fashion. It will simply stagger on until it blows apart at the seams. And then we shall see what we shall see.

I'm afraid you're right and I fully expect that when it does the Eurocrats still won't accept responsibility for their mad project and will blame its failure on others.

[Will21st]

Originally Posted by Hom3r

Spain asks for cash.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-18382659

Well if they worked rather than take a siesta when it's a bit hot.

Why don't we give all our taxes to europe.

It's about time well upsticks and left Europe behind us, then all those that come here and leech of the British benefit system can be told to sod off home.

I actually agree and wish we would

a) leave the EU
b) orientate ourselves more towards the Commonwealth,the Americas and the rising economies of the Far East.

I'd say Britain is extremely well connected globally and should really use that to it's advantage.Europe is way too complacent in it's ways and thinks it' the dogs private parts when it's anything but....
I guess now I know why they called it #the old world'....

on a scarier note I've just sold a property in Germany and I'm waiting for a substantial wedge to go into my account.... obviously the Euro is only allowed to collapse AFTER that has happened!

Originally Posted by Osem

I'm afraid you're right and I fully expect that when it does the Eurocrats still won't accept responsibility for their mad project and will blame its failure on others.

When they have 'tried everything' and it still hasn't worked, it will blow apart and it will be all the fault of the Anglo-Saxon bankers.

[Sirius]

I still say let it implode and then start again with a common market not this super state that they seem to think is the answer

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-18382659

Spain is to get up to €100 billion to bail out its banks. That's about EIGHTY BILLION POUNDS. The total cash outlay to bail out UK banks was about £120 billion. The difference is, we had the resources to pay for it. Spain does not.

Let nobody be fooled by the mechanism being used to funnel the money here. The fact that the EFSF is paying Spain's own bank restructuring fund directly rather than handing the cash to the Spanish treasury is a rather pathetic face-saving exercise designed (but doomed to fail) to disguise the fact that Spain does not have enough cash to bail out its own banks.

Spain's banking sector is bankrupt and were it not for foreign aid, that fact would imminently be bankrupting the Spanish state itself. Eurogeddon is here, folks, and the fat lady is in the wings.

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by Chris

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-18382659

Spain is to get up to €100 billion to bail out its banks. That's about EIGHTY BILLION POUNDS. The total cash outlay to bail out UK banks was about £120 billion. The difference is, we had the resources to pay for it. Spain does not.

Let nobody be fooled by the mechanism being used to funnel the money here. The fact that the EFSF is paying Spain's own bank restructuring fund directly rather than handing the cash to the Spanish treasury is a rather pathetic face-saving exercise designed (but doomed to fail) to disguise the fact that Spain does not have enough cash to bail out its own banks.

Spain's banking sector is bankrupt and were it not for foreign aid, that fact would imminently be bankrupting the Spanish state itself. Eurogeddon is here, folks, and the fat lady is in the wings.

Wish i could get a bail out

[Sirius]

Just been reading this and i do feel he could be right

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-18383804

The UK's hopes of economic recovery are being "killed off" by the eurozone crisis, the chancellor has warned.

Writing in the Sunday Telegraph, George Osborne said European leaders faced a "moment of truth" which could determine the economic future for over a decade.

This made me laugh

http://news.sky.com/home/business/article/16244113

Spain's finance minister has confirmed his country will ask for European financial aid for its ailing banking system.

Madrid insists the eurozone support for its banks is not a rescue, and not all banks need money.

Luis de Guindos told reporters the country has not yet made a formal loan request - but a statement from the eurogroup of finance ministers said they expected one "shortly".

So what the hell is it if not a rescue and here is the problem the faces when the country's being rescued will not except that there banks are at fault in the first place. !

It is a rescue. But they think that by calling it something else (and announcing it at the start of the weekend) the markets will not implode on Monday morning. The Spanish economy is twice the size of Greece, Portugal and Ireland combined - what is happening here is seismic. I doubt the financial sector is likely to be taken in by this attempted sleight of hand for very long.

The Eurocrats are utterly delusional. Everybody remember where you were during the summer of 2012 - we are living in historic times. Think Kennedy, think moon landing, think 9/11.

Originally Posted by Chris

It is a rescue. But they think that by calling it something else (and announcing it at the start of the weekend) the markets will not implode on Monday morning. The Spanish economy is twice the size of Greece, Portugal and Ireland combined - what is happening here is seismic. I doubt the financial sector is likely to be taken in by this attempted sleight of hand for very long.

The Eurocrats are utterly delusional. Everybody remember where you were during the summer of 2012 - we are living in historic times. Think Kennedy, think moon landing, think 9/11.

Surely, when faced with the very real consequences of ruin, Germany will agree to Eurobonds? From my reading that would stabilise the situation?

Germany can't agree to Eurobonds. Merkel is constitutionally forbidden to do so. This is why she speaks of such fiscal union as the desirable end of a process of integration rather than an immediate step towards integration.

For that level of sovereignty to be ceded, constitutional change requiring referendum would be needed in Germany. That cannot be done quickly and in the current climate, arguably cannot be done at all. In Germany as elsewhere the thirst for European integration is much stronger within the political class than in the population at large. Germans are already looking askance at the amount of their money thrown into a bottomless pit - they are only going to stand for so much more.