Eurozone will collapse...

To be fair to our Ang, she is being asked to pick up the tab for the mother of all parties ... You can't blame her for asking them if they wouldn't mind promising not to smash any more plates.

Seems a little unfair to Essex girls marty

[gba93]

Originally Posted by Sirius

Since Germany decided it ruled Europe

[Osem]

He who pays the piper calls the tune eh?

It's a dangerous game being played right now...

---------- Post added at 10:49 ---------- Previous post was at 10:44 ----------

Originally Posted by Chris

To be fair to our Ang, she is being asked to pick up the tab for the mother of all parties ... You can't blame her for asking them if they wouldn't mind promising not to smash any more plates.

I'd be more inclined to be 'fair' about that if I didn't have the niggling feeling that the whole raison d'etre of the EU was the creation of a German dominated superstate.

Originally Posted by Osem

Merkel 'suggests' Greek referendum



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-18121414

Since when was Greece part of Germany?

Since they were asked to bail them out maybe? Greece's situation is in large part of their own making and it's not unreasonable to suggest that they put their house in order if they wish to continue receiving the bailout money.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Damien

Since they were asked to bail them out maybe? Greece's situation is in large part of their own making and it's not unreasonable to suggest that they put their house in order if they wish to continue receiving the bailout money.

Who said they don't need to put their economic house in order? It's not only the Germans who have vast sums of money at stake either - directly and indirectly. However, it's not Germany's business who the Greeks elect and how they do it.

Originally Posted by Osem

He who pays the piper calls the tune eh?

It's a dangerous game being played right now...

---------- Post added at 10:49 ---------- Previous post was at 10:44 ----------



I'd be more inclined to be 'fair' about that if I didn't have the niggling feeling that the whole raison d'etre of the EU was the creation of a German dominated superstate.

The original reason was to tie France and Germany together in order to prevent another European war. It was about preventing German dominance, not enabling it. Unfortunately the supposed counterweight to Germany (France) is still a largely unreformed Socialist mess. Germany is the strongest economy in Europe and the single currency has been so inflexibly designed that it is always going to favour the strongest economy in the zone over the weaker. If France had been the strongest economy, then it would be France now sitting on a massive cash pile and getting pressurised to bail out the Greeks. But it's not. If you want to blame the Germans for anything, blame them for being efficient and hardworking.

Originally Posted by Osem

Who said they don't need to put their economic house in order? It's not only the Germans who have vast sums of money at stake either - directly and indirectly. However, it's not Germany's business who the Greeks elect and how they do it.

Well it is because the party that currently stands to get elected look like rejecting the austerity measures that were a condition of the bailout. It is Germany's business if this happens, they are entitled to not to have to throw good money after bad in order to prop up a unsustainable system in Greece.

The Greek people are being lied too when they are told they can reject those austerity measures without consequence. They probably don't care anymore but the German suggestion of a referendum is probably designed to make clear what they are voting for.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Damien

Well it is because the party that currently stands to get elected look like rejecting the austerity measures that were a condition of the bailout. It is Germany's business if this happens, they are entitled to not to have to throw good money after bad in order to prop up a unsustainable system in Greece.

The Greek people are being lied too when they are told they can reject those austerity measures without consequence. They probably don't care anymore but the German suggestion of a referendum is probably designed to make clear what they are voting for.

I really don't think many Greek people are stupid enough to believe they can reject austerity without any consequences. It's up to the Greeks to vote for what they feel is the best way forward for Greece and take what consequences follow. Germany should not try to influence that by interfering in their internal affairs and suggesting a referendum. How would Merkel react to another state suggesting the German people be given a referendum on whether their country should continue to fund bailouts?

---------- Post added at 17:51 ---------- Previous post was at 17:41 ----------

Originally Posted by Chris

The original reason was to tie France and Germany together in order to prevent another European war. It was about preventing German dominance, not enabling it. Unfortunately the supposed counterweight to Germany (France) is still a largely unreformed Socialist mess. Germany is the strongest economy in Europe and the single currency has been so inflexibly designed that it is always going to favour the strongest economy in the zone over the weaker. If France had been the strongest economy, then it would be France now sitting on a massive cash pile and getting pressurised to bail out the Greeks. But it's not. If you want to blame the Germans for anything, blame them for being efficient and hardworking.

Well that's the official reasoning presented to us in the history books yes but to what extent it represents the whole truth isn't clear. It seems entirely possible to me that the Germans knew full well that France would never live up to its role in the 'partnership' thereby leaving the door wide open to German influence.

I don't blame the Germans for being successful and getting their way BTW. I blame the Eurocrats for either being naive/stupid enough to think their promised land was anything other than a mirage or being complicit in a huge deception designed to bring about a single German dominated state by hook or by crook.

I think it's very far fetched to assume Germany used the EU as a vehicle for dominance. Can't help but think the English preoccupation with WW2 is colouring our impression of Europe and it isn't a healthy attitude.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Damien

I think it's very far fetched to assume Germany used the EU as a vehicle for dominance. Can't help but think the English preoccupation with WW2 is colouring our impression of Europe and it isn't a healthy attitude.

I don't think it's far fetched at all and I think it's about time we divested ourselves of this silly notion that every time we differ with the Germans it's all somehow about WWII. Maybe that's just a problem you have. Personally I think the Germans have a lot to be proud about and if more countries ran their affairs similarly they'd be a lot better off.

Why would it be so far fetched to assume that a country like Germany, the powerhouse of Europe, would seek to use (openly or otherwise) its massive and increasing influence within the EU to further its own ambitions? They're not in it for humanitarian reasons are they. If the Germans don't want to dominate Europe economically and politically they're not doing a very job of it are they. Of course that isn't the same as saying that their intent is entirely malevolent, they may just sincerely believe that the only way Europe can survive and prosper is with Germans at the helm and following the German model. Maybe they're right too.

[Ignitionnet]

For the curious here's how the Euro has benefited Germany to the detriment of other countries in the Eurozone, especially the weaker ones.

http://seekingalpha.com/article/6072...-for-the-piigs

http://news.sky.com/home/business/article/16235092

Spain's fourth largest bank Bankia has asked for 19bn euros (£15bn) in state aid - on top of a previous injection of 4.5bn euros.
In a statement, the struggling lender said it would ask Spain's bank restructuring fund FROB for a capital increase.
Earlier, the Spanish market suspended trade in the bank's plunging shares.

OH dear ,here we go again

It's getting really serious now, it's going to affect Eurovision.

http://news.sky.com/home/showbiz-news/article/16235181

Originally Posted by Tuftus

It's getting really serious now, it's going to affect Eurovision.

http://news.sky.com/home/showbiz-news/article/16235181

A fix you say unheard of .

One thing is certain though it won't be us with that dirge of Engleburts