Application Throttling/Management

I was getting 0.9MB - 1.0MB on uTorrent last night on a 10Mb/s line (and no, I am not getting MB and Mb confused ).

[Chrysalis]

Originally Posted by Andrewcrawford23

virgin dnt own the backhaul onto the internet only there fibre network once it connected to the backbone of the internet they pay for traffic jsut like bt does as well, but i aint saying this is a excuss for them just trying to clarify a slight misunderstanding.

you misunderstood me.

virgin own their own network, all of their backhaul linking up cable customers.

an isp like zen has to pay BT wholesale to get the traffic from the customers house to zen's network, so zen has to pay BT wholesale to shift the traffic across the country.

You are reffering to internet transit which is something different.

to give you an idea how expensive BT backhaul is entanet said they can send traffic to australia for about 10% of the cost they have to pay BT to send customer traffic to them.

Isp's such as sky and BE bypass these costs as they dont use BT wholesale backhaul, although they then have to pay for their own backhaul it is significantly cheaper hence they more competitive, VM also has their own backhaul.

[Andrewcrawford23]

Originally Posted by Chrysalis

you misunderstood me.

virgin own their own network, all of their backhaul linking up cable customers.

an isp like zen has to pay BT wholesale to get the traffic from the customers house to zen's network, so zen has to pay BT wholesale to shift the traffic across the country.

You are reffering to internet transit which is something different.

to give you an idea how expensive BT backhaul is entanet said they can send traffic to australia for about 10% of the cost they have to pay BT to send customer traffic to them.

Isp's such as sky and BE bypass these costs as they dont use BT wholesale backhaul, although they then have to pay for their own backhaul it is significantly cheaper hence they more competitive, VM also has their own backhaul.

i am aware but you are suggesting because they dnt pay for there itnernal bandwiwdht they dnt need to shaped, but since they pay for the backhual then that why they shaped to save them money. i do not agree with it but i understand there logic

[Chrysalis]

obviously they need to pay to upgrade capacity etc. but my point was the costs are not comparable to other isps who apply this kind of traffic shaping especially when you consider the revenue VM get as well.

The only conclusion I have come to is that investment in the backhaul has become significantly constrained in favour of profits and subsidising tv losses hence the need to traffic shape, time will tell if the introduction of docsis3 eases the need to shape (it should do), if they protocol shape then its probably just to cram as many customers as possible onto the service.

[Druchii]

Originally Posted by Chrysalis

obviously they need to pay to upgrade capacity etc. but my point was the costs are not comparable to other isps who apply this kind of traffic shaping especially when you consider the revenue VM get as well.

The only conclusion I have come to is that investment in the backhaul has become significantly constrained in favour of profits and subsidising tv losses hence the need to traffic shape, time will tell if the introduction of docsis3 eases the need to shape (it should do), if they protocol shape then its probably just to cram as many customers as possible onto the service.

And the puffa-elephant sized debts...

[Ignitionnet]

Originally Posted by Andrewcrawford23

i am aware but you are suggesting because they dnt pay for there itnernal bandwiwdht they dnt need to shaped, but since they pay for the backhual then that why they shaped to save them money. i do not agree with it but i understand there logic

People on VM aren't shaped to save backhaul / transit bandwidth, they are shaped due to the limitations of the cable network and VM not investing enough in it to preserve quality of service without throttling.

Originally Posted by Broadbandings

I just read a quite amusing story which I've also posted here in the other ISPs section.
Admin edit (Chris) - content removed.

Please don't post the same stuff across multiple threads, it just makes for messy, duplicated discussions.

[Griffin]

Here's something that we can only hope will make VM remove traffic shaping, that's sky making their max package truly unlimited. Hopefully VM are taking note

[Fatec]

Originally Posted by Griffin

Here's something that we can only hope will make VM remove traffic shaping, that's sky making their max package truly unlimited. Hopefully VM are taking note

Considering alex's reply to this on VM's internal forums, you have no chance of that.

His reply was

"Truely Unlimited, Like Ours"

[Fatec]

http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread....sid=1&pageNo=2

3 20 ms 24 ms 22 ms leed-t2cam1-a-v116.inet.ntl.com [80.0.54.145]

4 9 ms 21 ms 23 ms seac-dpim1-3-coc-1-gw.service.virginmedia.net [80.0.50.154]

5 21 ms 21 ms 21 ms lee-bb-a-so-230-0.inet.ntl.com [213.105.175.65]

DPIM - Deep Packet Inspection Module

3 755 ms 709 ms 470 ms wapk-t2cam1-b-v100.inet.ntl.com [80.1.170.237]

4 660 ms 848 ms 823 ms walt-dpim1-2-coc-1-gw.service.virginmedia.net [62.255.80.165]

5 679 ms 612 ms 498 ms pop-bb-b-so-020-0.inet.ntl.com [213.105.174.238]

Courtesy Of Ignition

You guys should really check that thread, seems i was right about ALLOT and throttling gamers!

---------- Post added at 00:18 ---------- Previous post was yesterday at 23:56 ----------

Oh Dear..

Acton

Name: acto-dpim1-1-coc-1.service.virginmedia.net
Address: 213.105.199.249

Name: acto-dpim1-2-coc-1.service.virginmedia.net
Address: 213.105.199.253


Baguley

Name: bagu-dpim1-1-coc-1.service.virginmedia.net
Address: 80.5.161.41

Name: bagu-dpim1-2-coc-1.service.virginmedia.net
Address: 80.5.161.45

Name: bagu-dpim1-3-coc-1.service.virginmedia.net
Address: 80.5.161.49

Name: bagu-dpim1-4-coc-1.service.virginmedia.net
Address: 80.5.161.53

Name: bagu-dpim1-5-coc-1.service.virginmedia.net
Address: 80.5.161.57

Name: bagu-dpim1-6-coc-1.service.virginmedia.net
Address: 80.5.161.61

Name: bagu-dpim1-7-coc-1.service.virginmedia.net
Address: 80.5.161.65

Name: bagu-dpim1-8-coc-1.service.virginmedia.net
Address: 80.5.161.69

Belfast

Name: belf-dpim1-1-coc-1.service.virginmedia.net
Address: 62.254.33.33

Name: belf-dpim1-2-coc-1.service.virginmedia.net
Address: 62.254.33.37

Name: belf-dpim1-3-coc-1.service.virginmedia.net
Address: 62.254.33.41

Name: belf-dpim1-4-coc-1.service.virginmedia.net
Address: 62.254.33.45

Birmingham

Name: brhm-dpim1-1-coc-1.service.virginmedia.net
Address: 213.106.231.113

Name: brhm-dpim1-2-coc-1.service.virginmedia.net
Address: 213.106.231.117

Name: brhm-dpim1-3-coc-1.service.virginmedia.net
Address: 213.106.231.121

Name: brhm-dpim1-4-coc-1.service.virginmedia.net
Address: 213.106.231.125

Brighton

Name: brig-dpim1-1-coc-1.service.virginmedia.net
Address: 80.3.64.209

Name: brig-dpim1-2-coc-1.service.virginmedia.net
Address: 80.3.64.213

Name: brig-dpim1-3-coc-1.service.virginmedia.net
Address: 80.3.64.217

Bromley

Name: bmly-dpim1-1-coc-1.service.virginmedia.net
Address: 80.1.225.42

Name: bmly-dpim1-2-coc-1.service.virginmedia.net
Address: 80.1.225.46

Cardiff

Name: cdif-dpim1-1-coc-1.service.virginmedia.net
Address: 62.254.255.18

Name: cdif-dpim1-2-coc-1.service.virginmedia.net
Address: 62.254.255.22

Name: cdif-dpim1-3-coc-1.service.virginmedia.net
Address: 62.254.255.26

Name: cdif-dpim1-4-coc-1.service.virginmedia.net
Address: 62.254.255.30

Cambridge

Name: cmbg-dpim1-1-coc-1.service.virginmedia.net
Address: 80.1.201.57

Name: cmbg-dpim1-2-coc-1.service.virginmedia.net
Address: 80.1.201.185

Colchester

Name: colc-dpim1-1-coc-1.service.virginmedia.net
Address: 213.107.240.30

Name: colc-dpim1-2-coc-1.service.virginmedia.net
Address: 213.107.240.34

Cosham

Name: cosh-dpim1-1-coc-1.service.virginmedia.net
Address: 80.3.161.38

Name: cosh-dpim1-2-coc-1.service.virginmedia.net
Address: 80.3.161.42

Name: cosh-dpim1-3-coc-1.service.virginmedia.net
Address: 80.3.161.46

Name: cosh-dpim1-4-coc-1.service.virginmedia.net
Address: 80.3.161.50

Guildford

Name: glfd-dpim1-1-coc-1.service.virginmedia.net
Address: 81.103.148.34

Name: glfd-dpim1-2-coc-1.service.virginmedia.net
Address: 81.103.148.38

Name: glfd-dpim1-3-coc-1.service.virginmedia.net
Address: 81.103.148.42

Huddersfield

Name: hudd-dpim1-1-coc-1.service.virginmedia.net
Address: 80.7.152.202

Name: hudd-dpim1-2-coc-1.service.virginmedia.net
Address: 80.7.152.206

Hersham

Name: hers-dpim1-1-coc-1.service.virginmedia.net
Address: 80.3.33.33

Name: hers-dpim1-2-coc-1.service.virginmedia.net
Address: 80.3.33.153

Leicester

Name: leic-dpim1-1-coc-1.service.virginmedia.net
Address: 82.2.32.226

Name: leic-dpim1-2-coc-1.service.virginmedia.net
Address: 82.3.32.230

Name: leic-dpim1-3-coc-1.service.virginmedia.net
Address: 82.3.32.234

Name: leic-dpim1-4-coc-1.service.virginmedia.net
Address: 82.3.32.238

Name: leic-dpim1-5-coc-1.service.virginmedia.net
Address: 82.3.32.242

Luton

Name: lutn-dpim1-1-coc-1.service.virginmedia.net
Address: 62.252.64.82

Name: lutn-dpim1-2-coc-1.service.virginmedia.net
Address: 62.252.64.86

Name: lutn-dpim1-3-coc-1.service.virginmedia.net
Address: 62.252.64.90

Name: lutn-dpim1-4-coc-1.service.virginmedia.net
Address: 62.252.64.94

Name: lutn-dpim1-5-coc-1.service.virginmedia.net
Address: 62.252.64.98

Name: lutn-dpim1-6-coc-1.service.virginmedia.net
Address: 62.252.64.102

Name: lutn-dpim1-7-coc-1.service.virginmedia.net
Address: 62.252.64.106

Name: lutn-dpim1-8-coc-1.service.virginmedia.net
Address: 62.252.64.110

Middlesborough

Name: midd-dpim1-1-coc-1.service.virginmedia.net
Address: 62.254.64.158

Name: midd-dpim1-2-coc-1.service.virginmedia.net
Address: 62.254.64.162

Name: midd-dpim1-3-coc-1.service.virginmedia.net
Address: 62.254.64.166

Name: midd-dpim1-4-coc-1.service.virginmedia.net
Address: 62.254.64.170

Name: midd-dpim1-5-coc-1.service.virginmedia.net
Address: 62.254.64.174

Name: midd-dpim1-6-coc-1.service.virginmedia.net
Address: 62.254.64.178

Name: midd-dpim1-7-coc-1.service.virginmedia.net
Address: 62.254.64.182

Name: midd-dpim1-8-coc-1.service.virginmedia.net
Address: 62.254.64.186

Nottingham

Name: nott-dpim1-1-coc-1.service.virginmedia.net
Address: 81.109.167.81

Name: nott-dpim1-2-coc-1.service.virginmedia.net
Address: 81.109.167.85

Name: nott-dpim1-3-coc-1.service.virginmedia.net
Address: 81.109.167.89

Name: nott-dpim1-4-coc-1.service.virginmedia.net
Address: 81.109.167.93

Name: nott-dpim1-5-coc-1.service.virginmedia.net
Address: 81.109.167.97

Northampton

Name: nrth-dpim1-1-coc-1.service.virginmedia.net
Address: 62.253.32.161

Name: nrth-dpim1-2-coc-1.service.virginmedia.net
Address: 62.253.32.165

Name: nrth-dpim1-3-coc-1.service.virginmedia.net
Address: 62.253.32.169

Oxford

Name: oxfd-dpim1-1-coc-1.service.virginmedia.net
Address: 213.106.245.61

Name: oxfd-dpim1-2-coc-1.service.virginmedia.net
Address: 213.106.245.189

Peterborough

Name: pete-dpim1-1-coc-1.service.virginmedia.net
Address: 80.3.129.125

Renfrewshire

Name: renf-dpim1-1-coc-1.service.virginmedia.net
Address: 62.254.190.201

Name: renf-dpim1-2-coc-1.service.virginmedia.net
Address: 62.254.190.205

Name: renf-dpim1-3-coc-1.service.virginmedia.net
Address: 62.254.190.209

Name: renf-dpim1-4-coc-1.service.virginmedia.net
Address: 62.254.109.213

Name: renf-dpim1-5-coc-1.service.virginmedia.net
Address: 62.254.190.217

Name: renf-dpim1-6-coc-1.service.virginmedia.net
Address: 62.254.190.221

Reading

Name: rdng-dpim1-1-coc-1.service.virginmedia.net
Address: 62.253.96.153

Name: rdng-dpim1-2-coc-1.service.virginmedia.net
Address: 62.253.96.161

Name: rdng-dpim1-3-coc-1.service.virginmedia.net
Address: 62.253.96.157

Leeds Seacroft

Name: seac-dpim1-1-coc-1.service.virginmedia.net
Address: 80.0.50.145

Name: seac-dpim1-2-coc-1.service.virginmedia.net
Address: 80.0.50.149

Name: seac-dpim1-3-coc-1.service.virginmedia.net
Address: 80.0.50.153

Name: seac-dpim1-4-coc-1.service.virginmedia.net
Address: 80.0.50.157

Southampton

Name: sotn-dpim1-1-coc-1.service.virginmedia.net
Address: 80.4.224.201

Name: sotn-dpim1-2-coc-1.service.virginmedia.net
Address: 80.4.224.205

Swansea

Name: swan-dpim1-1-coc-1.service.virginmedia.net
Address: 80.0.254.97

Name: swan-dpim1-2-coc-1.service.virginmedia.net
Address: 80.0.254.225

Waltham Park

Name: walt-dpim1-1-coc-1.service.virginmedia.net
Address: 62.255.80.162

Name: walt-dpim1-2-coc-1.service.virginmedia.net
Address: 62.255.80.166

Name: walt-dpim1-3-coc-1.service.virginmedia.net
Address: 62.255.80.170

Name: walt-dpim1-4-coc-1.service.virginmedia.net
Address: 62.255.80.174

Watford

Name: watf-dpim1-1-coc-1.service.virginmedia.net
Address: 80.3.1.26

Name: watf-dpim1-2-coc-1.service.virginmedia.net
Address: 80.3.1.154

Now who said they wasnt rolling ALLOT/Application throttling out heh?!!!

Source is Ignition.

[Stabhappy]

Eugh you've got to be kidding.

Originally Posted by TraxData2

Previous post was yesterday at 23:56 ----------

Oh Dear..



Now who said they wasnt rolling ALLOT/Application throttling out heh?!!!

Source is IgnitionNet.

Is that lot active now?

[Fatec]

Originally Posted by David F

Is that lot active now?

Yes

Now we have to wait to see if they extend the current trials and/or roll it out alltogether.

[Bonglet]

I wonder if since thats an old wow post (14/03/08) same time as that which must not be mentioned , they have covered it up now and no DPMI shows up on hop tracerts would explain the extra hop i keep seeing on any reverse traceroute but dont see that hop on a normal outbound tracert :S.

http://www.giganews.com/line_info.html

[brundles]

Originally Posted by TraxData2

You guys should really check that thread, seems i was right about ALLOT and throttling gamers!

If they're actively throttling gamers then they're either stupider than I previously gave them credit for or the network is bordering on meltdown.

Much as those of us using newsgroups don't like it, at the end of the day it's a non-realtime service with minimal impact to being throttled when the network is struggling. Throttling realtime critical data resulting in poor service for customers who (in most cases) won't know any better and will start calling faults to be told this is normal seems like commercial suicide for a residential ISP.

Do we have any reason why they're targetting gamers specifically?