Unstoppable migration?

[Osem]

Lying about their age has been widespread amongst illegal migrants and asylum seekers for years. Only the naïve, deluded and those with a political agenda would deny that. It staggers me that some folks can look at the law breaking these people are engaged in every night and then seek to pretend that they be totally truthful and open in their dealings with the UK authorities once they get here. Seriously it's bordering on pathetic.

[Taf]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

In their comfortable cabs with beds TV hot food toilets? An inconvenience

And the people in the make shift camps in Calais we just don't give a **** about ?

Hang on what happens if a lorry driver is polish ? Do we feel for them then ? Or is it just British lorry drivers ?

1. Only very few truckers have any of these luxuries on board

2. I don't give a *** for the people in the makeshift camps, except that one day they might be here

3. I am concerned for ALL truckers

[Osem]

@ Taff

Here we go again - playing the xenophobe card when your argument falls apart. It's as sad as it is laughable.

I wonder how long he'd put up with the 'luxury' these truckers are enduring on a regular basis and clearly a great many are foreign and suffering just as much through no fault of their own.

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by Taf

1. Only very few truckers have any of these luxuries on board

2. I don't give a *** for the people in the makeshift camps, except that one day they might be here

3. I am concerned for ALL truckers

You don't feel sorry for a fellow human being? I really do pity your evident lack of empathy.


What exactly are you so scared that they're going to do????


---------- Post added at 13:14 ---------- Previous post was at 13:13 ----------

Originally Posted by Osem

@ Taff

Here we go again - playing the xenophobe card when your argument falls apart. It's as sad as it is laughable.

I wonder how long he'd put up with the 'luxury' these truckers are enduring on a regular basis and clearly a great many are foreign and suffering just as much through no fault of their own.

I was homeless and slept rough for eighteen months in my late teens, your point?

The polish lorry driver part was (an admittedly failed) humorous digest.

I don't disagree that something needs to be done about the camps and that we can't take in large amounts of immigrants. It's not feasible to do so and it would encourage the problem to get worse. I think that we should be willing to accept some of them should we come to a cross-Europe agreement to deal with the problem at source, not Calais, and for each nation to take in a percentage of them.

However that doesn't mean we should dehumanise these people, lack sympathy for their situation or imply that this is their fault. They are escaping horrific conditions back home which isn't their fault and I imagine any of us would do the same thing. I think some of the language and insinuations directed at them in this thread is getting close to crossing a line...

It's often remarked that you can't raise concerns about immigration without being labelled a racist but if the discussion about those reasonable concerns can't be had without referring to those involved as if they were vermin trying to invade your house then that is the natural result. It's right that concerns are addressed without the assumption that those rising them are prejudiced but equally it's right to expect that conversation to happen without nastiness creeping in.

[Taf]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

You don't feel sorry for a fellow human being? I really do pity your evident lack of empathy.

No pity required, I have learned that empathy is useless in most cases I have no control over. Often the situations others find themselves in are self-generated, so it's a touch of karma, sometimes deserved, sometimes not.

I could no more take in every homeless person I see, than feed every starving child. Neither do I try to console all those suffering a family bereavement, whether through illness, accident or murder in all its forms.

The entire world was royally screwed by the banking system, triggering events relating to a lack of money. Whether it was loss of your home, loss of your job, political upheaval, or an excuse for religious gangsters to start grabbing what they wanted at the expense of others' lives and livelihoods.

Crossing several borders, travelling through places you would be safe but not wanting to stay there, is not the definition of an asylum seeker. It is the definiton of an economic migrant, hellbent on getting to where they think they will be relatively rich at the expense of the people there.

The UK is not a charity. The UK cannot afford to be a charity. The UK needs to deny entry to these hordes of non-asylum seekers.

Originally Posted by Taf

Crossing several borders, travelling through places you would be safe but not wanting to stay there, is not the definition of an asylum seeker. It is the definiton of an economic migrant, hellbent on getting to where they think they will be relatively rich at the expense of the people there.

I think it's clear that a lot of these people have escaped from horrible conditions. Not everyone reads up on the rules of how to seek Asylum and they could have been lied to by the people to which they gave money to smuggle them too Europe. Even then they are likely to run to the place they feel will best give them a better life. You seem to be implying a lot of malice thought to them with I can't see there.

[mrmistoffelees]

Originally Posted by Taf

No pity required, I have learned that empathy is useless in most cases I have no control over. Often the situations others find themselves in are self-generated, so it's a touch of karma, sometimes deserved, sometimes not.

I could no more take in every homeless person I see, than feed every starving child. Neither do I try to console all those suffering a family bereavement, whether through illness, accident or murder in all its forms.

The entire world was royally screwed by the banking system, triggering events relating to a lack of money. Whether it was loss of your home, loss of your job, political upheaval, or an excuse for religious gangsters to start grabbing what they wanted at the expense of others' lives and livelihoods.

Crossing several borders, travelling through places you would be safe but not wanting to stay there, is not the definition of an asylum seeker. It is the definiton of an economic migrant, hellbent on getting to where they think they will be relatively rich at the expense of the people there.

The UK is not a charity. The UK cannot afford to be a charity. The UK needs to deny entry to these hordes of non-asylum seekers.

The definition of an economic migrant is someone that chooses to go to a place where they will be worse off financially than say, France, Germany or Sweden?



You and your ilk are the 'So long as I'm alright jack screw the rest of you' brigade aren't you?


Your statement on empathy is bewildering and sad to be honest.

[Taf]

Originally Posted by mrmistoffelees

You and your ilk are the 'So long as I'm alright jack screw the rest of you' brigade aren't you?

It's about time we spent more time, money and effort on our own citizens, and not on any old bod that turns up on our borders with their hands out.

Once we have our own lives and country in order, we could consider helping others, but not those who just want free handouts in their own countries, or buying influence, as is often the case of many "aid packages" our goverment squanders abroad.

Food Aid often depresses the market for the overseas farmers who get up off their backsides and do something to help themselves.

Financial Aid often ends up in the hands of the few and not the many it is directed at. And I reckon a lot of it goes to arm groups that want power over democracy, attacking groups they don't like, causing them to run away rather than stand and fight for their own rights.

[Osem]

Yup, having pity only goes so far and for so many. We can't help all the world's needy and we have plenty of our own who'll be the ones who suffer even more as their services, jobs, housing and benefits come under pressure due to migration. I don't apologise for having more sympathy for them right now. Nobody dragged these migrants to Calais, nobody's preventing them claiming asylum there, nobody's forcing them to climb fences, jump onto lorries, threaten/intimidate drivers. What they're doing is their own choice and proves they have no respect for our laws. Sorry but that's a fact.

I wonder how much of their own time, effort and money those who claim the moral high ground and the empathy put into this problem? No, it's far easier to claim truckers have it easy and anyone who objects to the UK being effectively besieged by illegal migrants in this manner is an uncaring racist. What a crock!

Right now thousands of ordinary people and small businesses are suffering hugely with their jobs and livelihoods at risk due to this disruption. Ruined/spoiled foodstuffs, damage to vehicles, lost wages, penalties for delays etc. etc. etc. I bet few of the 'great and the good' wouldn't be quite so charitable were their jobs, businesses, homes on the line. Charity's oh so easy when you're not doing the giving or on the receiving end of the problems.

Give in to this blackmail and we'll never see the end of it - the world is full of people who'd love to come here and the last thing we need is to encourage them further. We need to stop wasting billions on dubious foreign aid and redirect that money to helping those in need where they need it. Frankly I have a great deal more sympathy for them than the hordes in Calais by their own choice.

[Sirius]

Just one point about them being OUR problem. They are only OUR problem because they have passed through all those SAFE country in Europe and have made themselves OUR problem.

[Jimmy-J]

Free hotels for the Calais stowaways in soft touch Britain: Outrage as immigrants illegally entering UK get cooked meals and £35 cash a week within days of arrival

Remember this is the DM, but it seems that outrageous, it's probably true.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...s-arrival.html

[nomadking]

Asylum seekers given homes and benefits were found to have iPads, mobile phones and flat screen televisions despite claiming they were "destitute", a report has found. The National Audit Office found migrants seeking permanent asylum in Britain were earning an income above legal levels required for them to be given housing and pay-outs.

From various official government sources.

A new standard rate of asylum cash support (£36.95 per person per week) is due to take effect from 10 August 2015. This will be a substantial reduction for single parents and families with children. The Government argues that households can make economies of scale, and that the new rate will bring the UK's provisions in line with practice in comparable EU states.

You’ll be given somewhere to live if you need it. This could be in a flat, house, hostel or bed and breakfast.
You can’t choose where you live. It’s unlikely you’ll get to live in London or south-east England.

Whilst waiting for a decision on the support application, temporary full-board or self-catering accommodation can be provided under section 98 of the 1999 Act.

[techguyone]

Originally Posted by Sirius

Just one point about them being OUR problem. They are only OUR problem because they have passed through all those SAFE country in Europe and have made themselves OUR problem.

Correct, people like mrmistoffelees should go get an atlas, last time I looked the UK wasn't anywhere near Africa/middle East, unless the geography has changed a bit when I was asleep...

You claim asylum in the first safe place you come across, you don't cherry pick. There that wasn't hard to understand was it.

Only a complete gormless idiot wouldn't make the correlation that they're coming here to max out everything possible.

Originally Posted by Taf

Crossing several borders, travelling through places you would be safe but not wanting to stay there, is not the definition of an asylum seeker. It is the definiton of an economic migrant, hellbent on getting to where they think they will be relatively rich at the expense of the people there.
.

In many cases the Asylum seeker is not choosing to come to the UK ,it is simply where they are placed by the agent that moved them , legally or illegally .It's also worth pointing out that they are not choosing to leave their country of birth .Most have very little time to prepare for a journey of a few thousand miles and most of those who end up in the UK are here because of the decisions of other people not themselves .Those that do choose to come here do so because they already speak the language (don't forget that most African countries have English as their second language) ,they also see the UK as a tolerant country that will respect their human rights .Your belief that asylum seekers are simply migrating to live on our benefits system is quite simply wrong .
I believe that the EU as a whole should take more responsibility in dealing with these migrants as dumping them into Germany(150,000 applicants) France (60,000 applicants)Sweden (55,000 applicants) Turkey 50,000 applicants) UK (25,000 applicants) is unfair to those countries .You will also note that those figures show the UK has far fewer claims for asylum than other EU countries .

Have a read of this it may enlighten you with a few facts
http://www.swansea.ac.uk/internation...otheuk/#accept

---------- Post added at 12:04 ---------- Previous post was at 11:51 ----------

Originally Posted by techguyone

Correct, people like mrmistoffelees should go get an atlas, last time I looked the UK wasn't anywhere near Africa/middle East, unless the geography has changed a bit when I was asleep...

You claim asylum in the first safe place you come across, you don't cherry pick. There that wasn't hard to understand was it.

Only a complete gormless idiot wouldn't make the correlation that they're coming here to max out everything possible.

And only a complete gormless idiot would say that claiming asylum in the first safe place you arrive means you stay in that place ,Italy and Greece are facing massive hardship because of the Dublin regulation which states that " that the first Member State where finger prints are stored or an asylum claim is lodged is responsible for a person's asylum claim" although it has to be said that many countries including Greece and Italy have stopped using the Dublin Regulation because it is unfair to the country ,unfair to the asylum seeker and leaves the country taking the asylum seeker liable to prosecution under UCHR regulations

As a member of the European Union we are as responsible for asylum seekers that enter European borders as any other country