100M : The Pirate Bay is blocked

Originally Posted by Maggy J

So you decide artwork I produce has no commercial value so you don't need to pay for..whereas I feel it does have commercial value so I want paying before you walk off with it.

If you paint a picture and someone decides they like it and takes it off your wall and takes possesion of that painting that is obviously theft ,if someone comes around your house sees the picture decides they like it and takes a HD photo of said picture prints it and decides to sell it to make money that is copyright infringement (assuming you had it copyrighted in the first place) not theft because they haven't stolen the picture merely copied it

[Milambar]

Originally Posted by carlwaring

Indeed.
Just to go OT slightly, this is currently the 'problem' with the BBC's iPlayer.

You can, quite legally, not pay for your TV Licence but still watch anything (that isn't 'live') via iPlayer. Now, if this remains the case and too many people do that, where's the funding going to come from for new programmes.

Sorry. Just a tangential thought

Yes its off-topic, but I will respond to it, to say that the BBC are lobbying extremely hard to get the law changed regarding that. One of the options they are persuing is a requrement for a TV Licence to own a PC.

Another option they are considering is to require downloaders to enter their TV Licence number before being allowed to download or stream off iPlayer.

So I fully expect the status of iPlayer to change sooner or later, in that respect.

[carlwaring]

Originally Posted by martyh

Maybe it's already been paid for ,maybe the downloader has paid a tv subscription

You subscription might only cover viewing it once, or only via streaming. In which case, if you want to keep a copy, buy it.

or bought the DVD/CD and simply wants a backup.

There are plenty of ripping programs available to do that

If i purchase a CD from i tunes i believe i can download it again in the event that the original ipod gets nicked or damaged ,is their that much difference ?

Yes, because, as you said, you've already purchased it and can get it again whenever you want to from iTunes.

---------- Post added at 14:41 ---------- Previous post was at 14:39 ----------

Originally Posted by smallclone

So presumably, jusging by what some peopel have said, they are not illegal? If the content is not shared or distributed?

A law (being criminal or civil) has still been broken as you would own something you have no right to with paying for it.

---------- Post added at 14:42 ---------- Previous post was at 14:41 ----------

Originally Posted by martyh

If you paint a picture and someone decides they like it and takes it off your wall and takes possesion of that painting that is obviously theft ,if someone comes around your house sees the picture decides they like it and takes a HD photo of said picture prints it and decides to sell it to make money that is copyright infringement (assuming you had it copyrighted in the first place) not theft because they haven't stolen the picture merely copied it

But a law has still been broken. So it is "against the law"; another word for which is...illegal. Glad we got that sorted out

[Milambar]

Originally Posted by martyh

If you paint a picture and someone decides they like it and takes it off your wall and takes possesion of that painting that is obviously theft ,if someone comes around your house sees the picture decides they like it and takes a HD photo of said picture prints it and decides to sell it to make money that is copyright infringement (assuming you had it copyrighted in the first place) not theft because they haven't stolen the picture merely copied it

At the end of the day, it can be argued that copyright infringement is also theft. While you have not removed the physical product from the original owner, you have made a copy of it. A copy for which they would normally have charged you, and therefore you deprived them of the income from that copy, therefore it could be argued, that you stole money off them.

Tenuous, I know, but its there.

[carlwaring]

Originally Posted by Milambar

One of the options they are persuing is a requrement for a TV Licence to own a PC.

A stance which I'm not sure I agree with.

Another option they are considering is to require downloaders to enter their TV Licence number before being allowed to download or stream off iPlayer.

A better idea but still not without its problems.

So I fully expect the status of iPlayer to change sooner or later, in that respect.

Quite right too

Originally Posted by martyh

If you paint a picture and someone decides they like it and takes it off your wall and takes possesion of that painting that is obviously theft ,if someone comes around your house sees the picture decides they like it and takes a HD photo of said picture prints it and decides to sell it to make money that is copyright infringement (assuming you had it copyrighted in the first place) not theft because they haven't stolen the picture merely copied it

Actually, if they copy it for personal use then it's civil infringment. If they copy it and then make commercial gains from the copy, that's a criminal matter.

It rather depends (imho) on which country the law is being applied. Anyone who 'illegally' obtains copyrighted content via a torrent site will be connected to tens/scores/hundreds of peers. Many of them will be in a different country or on a different Continent. How can it be realistically possible to police the World, when differing laws apply in different countries?

Originally Posted by martyh

If you paint a picture and someone decides they like it and takes it off your wall and takes possesion of that painting that is obviously theft ,if someone comes around your house sees the picture decides they like it and takes a HD photo of said picture prints it and decides to sell it to make money that is copyright infringement (assuming you had it copyrighted in the first place) not theft because they haven't stolen the picture merely copied it

If anyone did that I'd kick their backside so hard that we could see what they had eaten the day before..I'm also certain there is some law about people doing things uninvited,without permission in your home such as taking pictures unless they are the law and have a warrant that says they can.

[_wtf_]

Originally Posted by Milambar

At the end of the day, it can be argued that copyright infringement is also theft. While you have not removed the physical product from the original owner, you have made a copy of it. A copy for which they would normally have charged you, and therefore you deprived them of the income from that copy, therefore it could be argued, that you stole money off them.

Tenuous, I know, but its there.

And that is the BIG argument. Does a copy equal a lost sale.

How many of us have been given a DVD by a friend who says 'You might like this' so we watch it and never buy it?

[danielf]

Originally Posted by smallclone

So presumably, jusging by what some peopel have said, they are not illegal? If the content is not shared or distributed?

I believe that distribution of copyrighted materials is a criminal as well as civil offence. So you run more risks when using p2p such as torrents. With newsgroups you can download without uploading, so you just commit a civil offence.

[Milambar]

Originally Posted by Maggy J

If anyone did that I'd kick their backside so hard that we could see what they had eaten the day before..I'm also certain there is some law about people doing things uninvited,without permission in your home such as taking pictures unless they are the law and have a warrant that says they can.

Actually, they could stand outside on the public road, use a very long telephoto, and point it through your window, and theres not a thing you or the police can do about it then. Except draw the curtains. But yeah, NOW we're getting off topic....

[carlwaring]

Originally Posted by _wtf_

And that is the BIG argument. Does a copy equal a lost sale.

How many of us have been given a DVD by a friend who says 'You might like this' so we watch it and never buy it?

Of course, the other side of that is to not have any protection so everyone copies everything, so no-one makes any money and therefore nothing gets created ever again

[Milambar]

At the end of the day, in my opinion, if you can't afford to buy a legal copy of something, you have two, maybe three choices.

1) Do without.
2) Ask the rights holder if you may have a free copy (lol).
3) Ask someone whom has a legal copy, if they will let you have theirs. This has to be a transfer of the physical copy, and they must not make a copy for themselves and is only semi-legal.

At no point is it right, to just take a copy, imho.

Originally Posted by carlwaring

You subscription might only cover viewing it once, or only via streaming. In which case, if you want to keep a copy, buy it.


There are plenty of ripping programs available to do that


Yes, because, as you said, you've already purchased it and can get it again whenever you want to from iTunes.

---------- Post added at 14:41 ---------- Previous post was at 14:39 ----------


A law (being criminal or civil) has still been broken as you would own something you have no right to with paying for it.

---------- Post added at 14:42 ---------- Previous post was at 14:41 ----------


But a law has still been broken. So it is "against the law"; another word for which is...illegal. Glad we got that sorted out

watching once is what i do and yes i am fully aware that it is illegal ,in the same way as a mix tape given to a girlfriend on valentines day is illegal

Originally Posted by Milambar

At the end of the day, in my opinion, if you can't afford to buy a legal copy of something, you have two, maybe three choices.

1) Do without.
2) Ask the rights holder if you may have a free copy (lol).
3) Ask someone whom has a legal copy, if they will let you have theirs. This has to be a transfer of the physical copy, and they must not make a copy for themselves and is only semi-legal.

At no point is it right, to just take a copy, imho.

---------- Post added at 15:10 ---------- Previous post was at 15:09 ----------

Originally Posted by Milambar

Actually, they could stand outside on the public road, use a very long telephoto, and point it through your window, and theres not a thing you or the police can do about it then. Except draw the curtains. But yeah, NOW we're getting off topic....

Got to get through the net curtains first.. and yes we are digressing..