Brexit discussion

The Brexit process of leaving, is a shambles and that is purely down to one thing. Remainers in the government and in political circles, such as a the Lords, the unelected chamber, trying to thwart the democratic decision that was taken because according to some of the Lords, people did not know what they voted for, bollocks I say.

The Remain camp are doing all they can to sabotage Brexit negotiations, trying to use the NI border issue. Trying to tie us to the Single Market, Customs Union. It's the same old arguments again and again and again.

It's interesting to note that the Petition that asks for a referendum on the abolition of the Lords has surpassed 150,000 signatures, and it has been given a date for debate. 18th June, 2018. Many of the Lords are on a cushy EU benefits and pensions, their reason to stop Brexit is perfectly clear. Selfish, snot nosed imbeciles that they are.

Originally Posted by Mick

The Remain camp are doing all they can to sabotage Brexit negotiations, trying to use the NI border issue. Trying to tie us to the Single Market, Customs Union. It's the same old arguments again and again and again.

Remain didn't invent the trouble a border would pose in Northern Ireland. Hundreds of years of history did that surprisingly did not go away because it's inconvenient.

Yes it is the same old argument because it's yet to be resolved. It was an issue brought up before the referendum and it's still here because for all the talk of the people's will it doesn't magic away the fundamental problem.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Mr K

I was thinking more of the major political leave backers who can now see the oncoming shambles. Who can they blame? Theresa? The electorate? The EU? The cat ?

BBC. House of Lords. Judges. Anyone who voted remain. Industry heads. Civil servants. The Guardian. Nick Clegg. David Milliband.

---------- Post added at 12:06 ---------- Previous post was at 12:01 ----------

Originally Posted by Damien

Remain didn't invent the trouble a border would pose in Northern Ireland. Hundreds of years of history did that surprisingly did not go away because it's inconvenient.

Yes it is the same old argument because it's yet to be resolved. It was an issue brought up before the referendum and it's still here because for all the talk of the people's will it doesn't magic away the fundamental problem.

Ireland has always been the elephant in the Brexit room despite the pontifications of people like Rees-Mogg.

[Mr K]

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

BBC. House of Lords. Judges. Anyone who voted remain. Industry heads. Civil servants. The Guardian. Nick Clegg. David Miliband

You forgot Corbyn and immigrants

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by Mr K

You forgot Corbyn and immigrants

Corbyn was on form in PMQ today though his Brexit strategy is all over the place
When the prime minister wrote at the weekend that she wanted ‘as little friction as possible’, was she talking about EU trade or the next cabinet meeting?

[1andrew1]

No surprise here to anyone who's followed the Irish situation. Hopefully, we'll never leave the customs union, period

Britain will tell Brussels it is prepared to stay in the customs union beyond 2021 as ministers remain deadlocked over a future deal with the EU, the Telegraph has learned.
The Prime Minister's Brexit war Cabinet earlier this week agreed on a new "backstop" as a last resort to avoid a hard Irish border, having rejected earlier proposals from the European Union.
Ministers signed off the plans on Tuesday despite objections from Boris Johnson, the Foreign Secretary, and Michael Gove, the Environment Secretary. A pro-European Cabinet source said that Mr Johnson and Mr Gove were "outgunned" during the meeting and reluctantly accepted the plans.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics...-union-beyond/

[denphone]

Two warring cabinet factions , a weak wishy-washy leader is a clear recipe for shambolic chaos and that is what is ensuing Andrew.

Originally Posted by 1andrew1

No surprise here to anyone who's followed the Irish situation. Hopefully, we'll never leave the customs union, period

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics...-union-beyond/

We have to leave the Customs union or we are not fully leaving the EU that people democratically elected to do so.

Staying in the EU Single Market or a Customs Union is unacceptable. We must leave the EU in its entirety. That is what I voted for and 17.4 Million others.

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by denphone

Two warring cabinet factions , a weak wishy-washy leader is a clear recipe for shambolic chaos and that is what is ensuing Andrew.

If she hadn't held the election she could be more assertive. But ultimately, Europe has divided the Conservatives for as long as I can remember.

[jonbxx]

Originally Posted by Mick

We have to leave the Customs union or we are not fully leaving the EU that people democratically elected to do so.

Staying in the EU Single Market or a Customs Union is unacceptable. We must leave the EU in its entirety. That is what I voted for and 17.4 Million others.

You don't have to be an EU member to be in a customs union with the EU. Turkey isn't for example.

Interestingly, I found out there are parts of the EU not in the customs union. Gibraltar is one..

[tweetiepooh]

I think the Irish border is one of those things being made more difficult than it needs to be by lawyers and politicians.

The UK want an open border, the Irish want an open border so let's have an open border.

It's not like Norway where the border isn't populated, people have the border running through their houses. It could be an open border policed by the locals in that any large scale movement of goods/people etc would be spotted and could be reported. I suppose some form of official monitoring could be in place on the larger roads if really wanted - it probably already is knowing our surveillance culture.

We (the UK and the Irish) just do it and let the EU/politicos/lawyers worry about it.

Originally Posted by tweetiepooh

I think the Irish border is one of those things being made more difficult than it needs to be by lawyers and politicians.

The UK want an open border, the Irish want an open border so let's have an open border.

It's not like Norway where the border isn't populated, people have the border running through their houses. It could be an open border policed by the locals in that any large scale movement of goods/people etc would be spotted and could be reported. I suppose some form of official monitoring could be in place on the larger roads if really wanted - it probably already is knowing our surveillance culture.

The issue isn't goods moving back and forth but keeping track of what's gone back and forth. The EU doesn't want a bunch of cheap imported meat going into Ireland and then entering the wider EU unnoticed, passed off as Irish Beef maybe. This is why there are customs checks.

[jonbxx]

Originally Posted by Damien

The issue isn't goods moving back and forth but keeping track of what's gone back and forth. The EU doesn't want a bunch of cheap imported meat going into Ireland and then entering the wider EU unnoticed, passed off as Irish Beef maybe. This is why there are customs checks.

There's the good old immigration question too. The common travel are depends on harmonised immigration policies in the UK and Ireland and that's likely to change

[1andrew1]

Originally Posted by jonbxx

There's the good old immigration question too. The common travel are depends on harmonised immigration policies in the UK and Ireland and that's likely to change

So, if there is to be no hard border in Ireland, does Northern Ireland need to stay in the single market as well?*
If so, it's BINO (Brexit in name only) but no influence on the law. Is that what "Let's take back control" looks like?

* The rest of the UK would then have to as well in order to comply with Theresa May's DUP accord.

More good news in the Telegraph! Expect Rees-Mogg to start playing the victim! (Alas, registration is needed to read the full article)

Why customs union climbdown shows Britain is heading for a soft Brexit

Theresa may has said many times we are leaving the customs union and the single market and that's what 17.4 million people voted for it would be a grave mistake to backtrack on that now and she knows it so as much as remainers are constantly hoping for this "soft" brexit the rules don't allow for anything but hard brexit. If the EU can change their rules allowing anything other then hard brexit then can clearly change other rules if it suits them which means they are using the ireland issue as an excuse and we should tell them to sod off. Agreement could be reached on a workable solution but the EU needs to engage rather then just constantly shooting everything down i gaurantee if the UK said next monday "these negotiations are not working for us we are tired of the EU intransigence so we are out come march 2019 we see where things fall" there would be a rapid chane in the EU's negotiating position and likely a replacement of the EU's chief negotiator.