Application Throttling/Management - Page 18

Ignitionnet · 05-09-2008, 13:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by TraxData2

Anything P2P is throttled down to 512K, this includes games which use p2p engine (wow for updates?)

The connection literally gets crippled if you open a p2p app and stays that way until you turn it off.

Usenet (even with SSL) gets throttled down to 512K also from 20/50Mbit.

No one knows the limits or rules as of yet.

It looks as if its turning out to be an all day/evening thing though.

*sigh*

If it's a straight throttle to 512k just another lazy implementation by Virgin Media. There are ways to make devices subnet aware and control bandwidth utilisation on a per uBR basis which are far more granular and allow bandwidth while it's there to be used, and throttling to be deployed to try and control things when it's not.

OSS systems can be used to inform the devices of when a particular upstream is nearing saturation point and to begin to throttle P2P on a subnet. If you're clever you can even get all the people who are doing the uploading and shove them all on the same upstream then throttle them down accordingly to ensure the upstream remains uncongested.

If opening a P2P app cripples the connection that's a misconfiguration on the unit not allowing enough simultaneous TCP opens, and will also cause people issues with online banking sites and other websites that cause many threads to be opened.

Still what do I know, and why waste time trying to keep customers happy when you can just smack them with a hammer

Here's hoping that as this deployment matures it becomes a tad more granular and gentle.

05-09-2008, 14:35

makes me laugh Virgin deines p2p throttling and then trial I just hope Trax's is lying and Virgin become a good ISP

Fatec · 05-09-2008, 14:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by darthlinux

makes me laugh Virgin deines p2p throttling and then trial I just hope Trax's is lying and Virgin become a good ISP

Alex has killed a once great ISP...

Bit hard to lie when the hardware is there, enabled, staring you in the face

Sirius · 05-09-2008, 14:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by darthlinux

makes me laugh Virgin deines p2p throttling and then trial I just hope Trax's is lying and Virgin become a good ISP

Oh look at that flying pig

Fatec · 05-09-2008, 14:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirius

Oh look at that flying pig

Only 1 pig? are you in a good mood today? your being abit too nice here

Sirius · 05-09-2008, 14:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by TraxData2

Only 1 pig? are you in a good mood today? your being abit too nice here

I have come to the conclusion that VM have decided to kill what was a world beating broadband service and nothing we do will change that.

05-09-2008, 14:54

so true I think there is allot of pigs flying

hokkers999 · 05-09-2008, 15:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by TraxData

Not really, as with ALLOT it has deep packet inspection, they can easily tell if ur using usenet even with SSL.

They can deep packet all they want, I use Giganews and it is an *encrypted* connection, how does that help them?

Andrewcrawford23 · 05-09-2008, 15:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by hokkers999

They can deep packet all they want, I use Giganews and it is an *encrypted* connection, how does that help them?

encrypted is using ssl, at the end of the day if they want to see what your doing they can, even vpn isn't complete secure. plus if it application management it will no doubt be done via protocol and they will know what protocol usenet uses

Fatec · 05-09-2008, 15:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by hokkers999

They can deep packet all they want, I use Giganews and it is an *encrypted* connection, how does that help them?

duh... they throttle everything going to the giganews FEPs.

So you'll be throttled...

SSL will just stop them seeing what your downloading, not what ur doing

hokkers999 · 05-09-2008, 15:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Broadbandings

Not really, this is why there are certification chains for the SSL certificates. If Virgin started trying to proxy SSL connections in order to read the contents it would be very obvious when you noted your bank's secure site having a certificate signed by Virgin Media

They can't 'break' SSL but can certainly monitor the endpoints and implement a policy based on that. If someone has 10 SSL connections to news-europe.giganews.com it doesn't take a huge amount of thinking or analysis to guess what the traffic is.

What about when all they see is encrypted traffic to a remote server like this service?

https://www.relakks.com/?cid=gb

popper · 05-09-2008, 15:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by David F

But this information will goto press.

There is no defending VM anymore they are screwing their customers over. Ok you can argue Usenet is piracy but even considering throttling gaming ports is just wrong wrong wrong.

VM are standing toe to toe to us customers smacking us in the mouth over and over trying to push us as far as they can and so far we are not hitting back

sure Zing, but running away as you indicate to BT isnt hitting back is it.

instead of running away why dont you effected people that finally started commenting on this VM policy now it might effect your personal Broadband usage just take the right and only real effective route, and FINALLY challenge this virgin media FUP and STM rule in the small claims courts

is filling in the moneyclaim (aka online small claims county court service, or filling a real paper small claims D1 form down you local county court OC) website form so hard.

plus reading and understanding some basic common law/consumer law text, and appearing in your local county court to get a ruling again the VM UK/US executive bad faith clauses.

so invalidating them and making them unenforceable, thus getting them legally removed ,is that hard to do? NO it's not you just need to make the effort against these companies taking your money for services they tell you they will supply then dont fully complaining your using to much.

but everyone talks about running away tothe other side or ignoring the problems and waits for someone else to do it for them, and so here we are getting slapped again and again as you put it.

https://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk/csmco2/index.jsp

http://search.virginmedia.com/result...ryUK&x=40&y=19

Ignitionnet · 05-09-2008, 15:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by hokkers999

What about when all they see is encrypted traffic to a remote server like this service?

https://www.relakks.com/?cid=gb

Then they throttle flows going to those VPN endpoints.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrewcrawford23

encrypted is using ssl, at the end of the day if they want to see what your doing they can, even vpn isn't complete secure. plus if it application management it will no doubt be done via protocol and they will know what protocol usenet uses

SSL is a protocol and what's inside the SSL can't be read unless you proxy the SSL connection and terminate it on the appliance. Secure Sockets Layer - what's running on top of the SSL tunnel can be anything and ISP is none the wiser, so they throttle based on source address, the Giganews FEPs.

VPN is completely secure so long as the encryption is set up appropriately however as mentioned above you don't need to know what's in the VPN to be able to throttle.

Andrewcrawford23 · 05-09-2008, 15:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Broadbandings

Then they throttle flows going to those VPN endpoints.

SSL is a protocol and what's inside the SSL can't be read unless you proxy the SSL connection and terminate it on the appliance. Secure Sockets Layer - what's running on top of the SSL tunnel can be anything and ISP is none the wiser, so they throttle based on source address, the Giganews FEPs.

VPN is completely secure so long as the encryption is set up appropriately however as mentioned above you don't need to know what's in the VPN to be able to throttle.

I rather you did not talk to me like i am idiot, neither SSL or VPN is 100% secure nor are there 100% invisible there both got vulnerabilities that can be exploited and both can be viewed what the content is but it is not easy to do. I aint done networking for nothing :s

Ignitionnet · 05-09-2008, 15:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrewcrawford23

I rather you did not talk to me like i am idiot, neither SSL or VPN is 100% secure nor are there 100% invisible there both got vulnerabilities that can be exploited and both can be viewed what the content is but it is not easy to do. I aint done networking for nothing :s

Go break a SHA-1 AES-256 VPN using PFS and IKE or a similarly set up SSL connection and get back to me. The NSA can't so I don't rate your chances.

Find where I talked down to you also, I just explained the technology...