Ukraine on the verge of civil war!

Originally Posted by Osem

@ Kabaal - Military action would of course be a last resort but until the west is seen to have a credible plan for a prompt and painful response to acts like this all the pontificating in the word adds up to so much hot air. Who do our leaders think they're kidding? We don't believe they have the stomach for meaningful economic sanctions and neither does Putin. Until that changes he can be pretty sure that another land grab will go equally unpunished. What better way to encourage him to try?

Play the long game. Germany should keep her nuclear power plants. Britain should build them and turn to shale gas. We then sell excess energy to Europe. Then we can cut Russia off and give Putin the cold war he seems to crave.

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by Damien

Play the long game. Germany should keep her nuclear power plants. Britain should build them and turn to shale gas. We then sell excess energy to Europe. Then we can cut Russia off and give Putin the cold war he seems to crave.

One would hope so

[Uncle Peter]

Originally Posted by heero_yuy

Military action would be suicidal. Have we forgotten how two world wars started?

This problem is, as so many others are, a result of arbitrary settings of borders with no account of the ethnicity or tribal (Africa) affiliations.

Crimea had always been Russian until Khrushchev gifted it to the Ukraine.

The referendum in the Crimea was about as legal as the current government in Kiev. For one to declare the other "illegal" is laughable. Even more stupid for the West to back a regime that ousted a legally elected president in what was effectively a coup-d'tat.

Only within the context of Putin's extemely selective, historic references. Even the name "Crimea" is not remotely Slavic in origin, it's a Turkic name derivation synonymous with the native Tatars. Not an excuse for violation of international law.

Originally Posted by heero_yuy

I merely make the point that one illegal action is not a criteria for backing another.

Which illegal action are we backing?

[Sirius]

The little steps in the war of words will soon start a new cold war and all the costs that grow from that.

http://news.sky.com/story/1230435/ru...ady-warns-nato

Russia Troops 'Sizeable And Ready', Warns Nato
Nato's top commander says Russian troops massing on Ukraine's eastern border are "very, very ready" to move for other territories.

The arms manufactures must be rubbing there hands in glee

[Osem]

Nato's military commander in Europe has issued a warning about the build-up of Russian forces on Ukraine's border.

Supreme Allied Commander Europe Gen Philip Breedlove said Nato was in particular concerned about the threat to Moldova's Trans-Dniester region.

Russia said its forces complied with international agreements.

The build-up has been allied with Russia's annexation of Crimea from Ukraine, following the removal of Ukraine's pro-Moscow president.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26704205

What really worries me is that Putin, buoyed by events in Crimea, might just go one step too far and set off a very serious chain of events. He's denying the action in Crimea was planned but that's as preposterous and his claim that Russian forces weren't involved. It was planned and executed and if he feels he can snatch a bit more territory elsewhere and get away with it, he may well try it on again. Given that he clearly wants to be seen as a warrior, a big Russian bear, how would his huge ego react to having his bluff called I wonder.

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by Osem

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26704205

What really worries me is that Putin, buoyed by events in Crimea, might just go one step too far and set off a very serious chain of events. He's denying the action in Crimea was planned but that's as preposterous and his claim that Russian forces weren't involved. It was planned and executed and if he feels he can snatch a bit more territory elsewhere and get away with it, he may well try it on again. Given that he clearly wants to be seen as a warrior, a big Russian bear, how would his huge ego react to having his bluff called I wonder.

What worries me the most is that this could escalate to a position we never want to be in ever again.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban_missile_crisis

Originally Posted by Osem

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26704205

What really worries me is that Putin, buoyed by events in Crimea, might just go one step too far and set off a very serious chain of events. He's denying the action in Crimea was planned but that's as preposterous and his claim that Russian forces weren't involved. It was planned and executed and if he feels he can snatch a bit more territory elsewhere and get away with it, he may well try it on again. Given that he clearly wants to be seen as a warrior, a big Russian bear, how would his huge ego react to having his bluff called I wonder.

We let him take Crimea too easily. He will be emboldened. I think he is thinking about taking Eastern Ukraine.

[Uncle Peter]

There you go Vladimir... don't spread yourself to thin now!

Turkey downs Syrian military jet

[Sirius]

Originally Posted by Uncle Peter

There you go Vladimir... don't spread yourself to thin now!

Turkey downs Syrian military jet

Turkey does not take any crap and they do exactly what they say they will do.

[Osem]

Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov has set out demands for a neutral and federal Ukraine, ahead of crisis talks with his US counterpart in Paris.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26809625

Demands? And what if the people of Ukraine don't accept Russian demands?

I wouldn't believe any of their assurances - they've proved that they will take what they and argue about it later when it's a fait accompli...

[Uncle Peter]

Darth Vader is out of the presidential running for the upcoming elections, which is perhaps fortunate because he wanted to turn Ukraine into "a galactic empire".

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-news...where-26882664

[Osem]

Pro-Russian protesters who seized the regional government building in the Ukrainian city of Donetsk are reported to have declared a "people's republic".

The rebels have called for a referendum on secession from Ukraine by 11 May.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26919928

[Osem]

Russian President Vladimir Putin has warned European leaders that Ukraine's delays in paying for Russian gas have created a "critical situation".

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26975204

In a letter to European leaders, President Putin warned that the "critical" situation could affect deliveries of gas to Europe, his spokesman Dmitry Peskov said.

The letter released by the Kremlin says that if Ukraine does not settle its energy bill, Gazprom will be "compelled" to switch over to advance payment, and if those payments are not made, it "will completely or partially cease gas deliveries".

Mr Putin adds that Russia was "prepared to participate in the effort to stabilise and restore Ukraine's economy" but only on "equal terms" with the EU.

And he says that while Russia has been subsidising the Ukrainian economy with cheap gas, Europe has been exploiting its raw materials and worsening its trade deficit.

Looks like this is the start of tit for tat retaliation.

[Osem]

Ukraine's president says a full-scale operation involving the army will be launched in the east after pro-Russian militants seized government buildings.

Acting President Oleksandr Turchynov said he would not allow a repetition of what happened in Crimea which was annexed by Russia last month.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-27011605