Unstoppable migration?

[Osem]

Who's suggesting that solving uncontrolled migration is a cure all? Getting control of migration isn't an excuse for not tackling all our other ills and, as I've stated, would at least make sure we are getting people we need as opposed to people we don't. Mass migration on the scale of the last 15 years is unsustainable and undoubtedly creating additional problems we don't need and aren't able to cope with.

All of these things have a geographical element clearly which is why I had to laugh at previous correspondence with the late Charles Kennedy whose constituency wasn't exactly overwhelmed with Scots let alone migrants...

Originally Posted by Osem

Who's suggesting that solving uncontrolled migration is a cure all? Getting control of migration isn't an excuse for not tackling all our other ills and, as I've stated, would at least make sure we are getting people we need as opposed to people we don't. Mass migration on the scale of the last 15 years is unsustainable and undoubtedly creating additional problems we don't need and aren't able to cope with.

All of these things have a geographical element clearly which is why I had to laugh at previous correspondence with the late Charles Kennedy whose constituency wasn't exactly overwhelmed with Scots let alone migrants...

I don't think I implied that others were suggesting uncontrolled migration is a cure all, sorry if I did, but they were none the less overstating the impact. From the evidence we have it would seem the negative effect is negligible if it exists at all. That the time we spend on here debating immigration isn't relative to the problems it causes.

If we were given a choice between halving the rate of diabetes or of immigration then the former would have far larger an impact, or at least that's what those Full Fact links suggest. I know it's rather counter-intuitive to think that large amounts of immigration doesn't drastically impact the NHS but it goes back to the initial point I made in that you have to consider the demographics involved and look at what is actually causing pressure on the NHS.

Slightly off-topic but I remember after Brexit there was a news channel talking to people on the street and there was one young guy who was very happy. He seemed nice, not motivated by racism or fear, and was just happy that now the factories would reopen and he could get a better job (or a job at all). But that probably isn't going to happen because globalisation and free trade would have been a far bigger factor in the closure of those factories than cheap EU Labour.

Even if we're not saying that limiting migration is a cure all I think we're going to see how little a dent it's going to make in any of our problems. Old Age and obesity will continue to be the challenge for the NHS, China and others will be the biggest challenge for UK manual Labour and the economy will dominate even those in impacting us all.

The main benefit to controlling migration is probably better managing social cohesion rather than the NHS, wages or jobs.

Just my reading of the situation anyway. Obviously my weaknesses here are that I tend to trust statistics over anecdotal evidence which blinds you to the personal impact lost amongst the data and that I live in London which is a world away from many other parts of Britain. We could also get into that as well because London vs Britain is another part of the story but this post is already too long.....

The scale of the difficulties immigration causes is not really calculable because we have no clue exactly how many are here until we can get that figure to within 10k or so we have little chance of success. We need both stronger borders, patrols of those borders and rapid deportation in place to start getting a handle on this.

[TheDaddy]

42% increase in hate crimes post brexit, wonder if their is a link...

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.ind...android-h3g-gb

[heero_yuy]

Hungary plans to build a second fence on its southern border with Serbia that would enable it to keep out any major new wave of migrants, Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban said on Friday.

Orban said the new barrier, to be built alongside the existing one, would strengthen defenses to respond if Turkey's policy on migration changed. If that happened, hundreds of thousands could appear at Hungary's border, he told public radio.

"Technical planning is under way to erect a more massive defense system next to the existing line of defense which was built quickly (last year)," Orban said.

Orban said Hungary had to prepare for the eventuality of a deal between Turkey and the European Union to clamp down on migration into Europe via the Balkans unraveling.

"Then if it does not work with nice words, we will have to stop them with force, and we will do so," Orban said.

Reuters

Despite how some think of the UK's anti immigration group we're still quite pleasant about it in terms of consequences and there are many other nations quite nearby prepared to be a lot less pleasant to deal with it.

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by heero_yuy

Reuters

Hundreds of thousands, I seem to remember being told recently that 75 million turks were already on their way

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

42% increase in hate crimes post brexit, wonder if their is a link...

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.ind...android-h3g-gb

wonder if there really is a rise.A hate crime being reported doesn't always mean a hate crime has happened and i would question a report that has this in it

"The committee remains concerned that despite the recent increase in the reporting of hate crimes, the problem of underreporting persists, and the gap between reported cases and successful prosecution remains significant,” the report added.

“As a result, a large number of racist hate crimes seem to go unpunished.”

[RichardCoulter]

Legally speaking, the following is defined as a hate crime:

Any offence can be a hate crime if it was carried out because of hostility or prejudice based on disability, race, religion, transgender identity or sexual orientation.

You may not agree with this law, but as it stands, the above is factually correct.

Some useful links:

To report a hate crime-

www.report-it.org.uk

For support if you have been affected by a hate crime-

www.stophateuk.org

Stop Hate UK is a charity that provides independent and confidential support to people affected by Hate Crime.

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

Hundreds of thousands, I seem to remember being told recently that 75 million turks were already on their way

They would have been following the 29 million Romanians and Bulgarians, apparently...

---------- Post added at 18:20 ---------- Previous post was at 18:19 ----------

Originally Posted by martyh

wonder if there really is a rise.A hate crime being reported doesn't always mean a hate crime has happened and i would question a report that has this in it

I remember the same thing being said about rape...

[RichardCoulter]

Originally Posted by Hugh

I remember the same thing being said about rape...

Indeed Hugh.

Originally Posted by Hugh

They would have been following the 29 million Romanians and Bulgarians, apparently...

---------- Post added at 18:20 ---------- Previous post was at 18:19 ----------

I remember the same thing being said about rape...

Seriously hugh some of your comparisons lately are absolutely ridiculous

You seriously cannot use something as clearly defined as rape as a comparison to something as subjective as racism ,get some perspective man

---------- Post added at 18:49 ---------- Previous post was at 18:45 ----------

Originally Posted by RichardCoulter

Indeed Hugh.

Indeed what ?? Hughs comparison between rape and hate crimes is an absolute joke

Clearly defined as rape....

Perhaps you need to read up on some of the excuses why 'it wasn't rape'..

'She didn't say no' because she was drunk

'Well, she shouldn't have dressed that way, she was asking for it'

'It can't be rape, we're married/a couple'

Etc., etc.

Originally Posted by Hugh

Clearly defined as rape....

Perhaps you need to read up on some of the excuses why 'it wasn't rape'..

'She didn't say no' because she was drunk

'Well, she shouldn't have dressed that way, she was asking for it'

'It can't be rape, we're married/a couple'

Etc., etc.

your just being ludicrous now

Rape is very clearly defined ,an excuse such as the ones you just listed is not a definition .

and what the hell has this thread got to do with rape anyway ,the Daddy linked an article claiming a rise in hate crime because of the brexit vote ,i questioned it because of the doubt there must be in the conclusion given the statement i quoted .A significant gap between reported cases and successful prosecutions usually means that there is no evidence or very little evidence ,in other words no hate crime has been committed unless evidence is to be fabricated to make the 2 statistics match

Yes rape and hate crime completely comparable stupid, an increase in reporting following the brexit vote in and of itself is irrelevant have those figures remained consistent after or was this a spike which could be attributed to a number of factors including groups trying to make a point. My neighbour is polish works as do his wife and daughter and are zero trouble yet every year i get a bnp card pushed through my letterbox with "go back to poland" and "britain is for british" lets not worry that the chimps can't even get the right house this sort of stuff has happened for years. Brexit i highly doubt triggered a sudden group to go out and commit hate crime although given how thin skinned and precious some people are these days being patrotic to the UK would be seen as racism.

If the figures remain high a year from now maybe there will be evidence of a problem but right it's irrelevant.