Unstoppable migration?

[Taf]

Palermo is no longer an Italian town. It is no longer European. You can walk in the city and feel like you’re in Istanbul or Beirut.

Leoluca Orlando, mayor of Palermo

And now it's a turf war with the mafia....

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Taf

And now it's a turf war with the mafia....

It's a good job vast amounts of resentment (on both sides) aren't being stored up isn't it because if that were the case it'd be reasonable to assume that it'll kick of sooner or later, big time. It won't affect us though...

[Osem]

Anyway, it's comforting to see that our borders are as robust as ever...

Fifteen people have been found in the back of a lorry near the Dartford Crossing.

The incident has resulted in long delays on the M25.

Police were called to a slip road on junction 31 of the M25 anticlockwise after reports of people in the back of a lorry.

http://www.newsshopper.co.uk/news/14...g/?ref=mr&lp=4

[Osem]

Austria's far-right Freedom Party candidate has come top in the first round of presidential elections, projections show.

Norbert Hofer has about 36% of the votes for the mostly ceremonial role - not enough to avoid a run-off in May.

Independent contenders Alexander Van der Bellen and Irmegard Griss are fighting for second place.

For the first time since World War Two, the candidates from Austria's two main parties did not make it to the run-off.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36124256

The clear victory of the far-right candidate reflects widespread discontent with the status quo, as well as concerns about immigration and the economy, our correspondent says.

There'll be more of this as the grand welcomes are forgotten.

[Osem]

Well whatever happened to that Austrain welcome a few folks around here were extolling not so long ago?

Austria has passed a controversial new law that restricts the right of asylum and allows most claimants to be rejected directly at the border.

Rights groups say the law undermines the principle of protection from war and persecution.

It comes days after Austria's far-right came top in the first round of a presidential election.

Austrian officials say they are also considering building a fence at the main border crossing with Italy.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36152927

Can you imagine what the UK would be accused of if we went down the same route?

[Taf]

Rambling all over the middle east and europe, then turning up at the border of country you fancy, for whatever the reason, and claiming asylum is not adhering to the rules. So countries in that position are starting to reject asylum claims if you arrive from a "safe" country.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Taf

Rambling all over the middle east and europe, then turning up at the border of country you fancy, for whatever the reason, and claiming asylum is not adhering to the rules. So countries in that position are starting to reject asylum claims if you arrive from a "safe" country.

Therein lies the biggest problem. The powers that be have effectively sent out the clear message that you can choose where you claim asylum and demand where you want to go. This was an exceptionally bad idea since vast numbers of economic migrants (and others with far more dangerous intent) in poor countries all around the world are now willing to take the chance that if they travel to Europe they have a very good chance of being let in and thereafter being free to 'disappear'. We can have great sympathy on an individual level for many of these people but what we can't do is take in everyone who'd like to live here because they're poor. Rather than have a clear and robust Europe wide policy which would have at least maintained some control of economic and illegal migration what we've done is

It's highly ironic that at a time of great terrorist threat, the EU, which seems intent on controlling just about everything we do in one way or another, was unable/unwilling to control something as fundamental as its border controls and is still tinkering around the edges with a box of sticking plasters. Frankly it beggars belief.

As a consequence of this abject failure we now have around the EU all sorts of problems ranging from the rise of extreme political parties to serious disputes between neighbouring countries and growing, increasingly widespread, social unrest. Yet despite all of this going on before our very own eyes, there are still those who say let them come, there should be no limits. The longer this goes on, the more serious the situation becomes and the less able we will be to stem the flow. There will be a point at which the damage being done will be irreversible and if/when that happens the consequences for our way of life will be serious.

I notice the new Austrian law:

lets the government declare a "state of emergency" over the migrant crisis and reject most asylum-seekers, including those from war-torn countries such as Syria.

It also limits any successful asylum claim to three years.

But in practice how will that be achieved? Where are the 'rejects' going to go? Also, I'd have thought those whose asylum claims have been granted are hardly likely to sit around for 3 years in Austria waiting to be sent home to the life they fled...

[Osem]

German police have detained about 400 left-wing demonstrators who were trying to prevent people entering a right-wing party conference in Stuttgart.

About 1,000 officers were involved in the operation to keep the two sides apart, as the protesters blocked roads, burned tyres and threw firecrackers.

The Alternative fur Deutschland (AfD) party is expected to re-brand itself as openly anti-Islamic during the meeting.

The AfD wants to ban the burqa and outlaw minarets in Germany.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36176901

[Ramrod]

In 2015, foreigners were responsible for 44 per cent of the Austria’s crime

.....Given that migrants make up a small but growing proportion of Austria’s population, that they account for 44 per cent of all crime suggests they are grossly overrepresented in crime statistics.

[Osem]

It doesn't surprise me that refugees and economic migrants might be over-represented in crime figures. They're in between a rock and a hard place in countries which, for whatever reason, can't or won't support them adequately. Clearly there will be criminals amongst their ranks but for those (the majority) who just wanted a better life, if they don't have jobs (or have very poor jobs) and are genuinely struggling to survive, what other choice do they realistically have? It's all very well 'welcoming' millions of people from all around the globe into the EU but unless there is adequate support, jobs, housing etc. and the reality in some way matches their expectations, I'd have thought you've created a recipe for a growing number of disaffected and hugely resentful people highly likely to turn to crime and social disorder and even become susceptible to radicalisation.

None of this has been thought through. I'd wager that in 10 years time the vast majority of those who've been allowed to come to the EU ere are a) still here and b) still overrepresented amongst the poorest sections of society, criminals etc. Well meaning but naïve people talk as if migrants will come, integrate, be accepted and live happily ever after when the reality for most will be very different. We can already see this across the UK and Europe where there have been various migrant influxes (e.g. post colonial) going back many decades and the subsequent creation of 'ghettos', underprivileged housing estates, no go areas, gang culture, ethnic rivalries etc. which has led to social unrest and riots. If it's already happening with the migrant communities we already have, how much more so when so many people have come so quickly and need so much help?

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by Osem

It doesn't surprise me that refugees and economic migrants might be over-represented in crime figures. They're in between a rock and a hard place in countries which, for whatever reason, can't or won't support them adequately. Clearly there will be criminals amongst their ranks but for those (the majority) who just wanted a better life, if they don't have jobs (or have very poor jobs) and are genuinely struggling to survive, what other choice do they realistically have? It's all very well 'welcoming' millions of people from all around the globe into the EU but unless there is adequate support, jobs, housing etc. and the reality in some way matches their expectations, I'd have thought you've created a recipe for a growing number of disaffected and hugely resentful people highly likely to turn to crime and social disorder and even become susceptible to radicalisation.

None of this has been thought through. I'd wager that in 10 years time the vast majority of those who've been allowed to come to the EU ere are a) still here and b) still overrepresented amongst the poorest sections of society, criminals etc. Well meaning but naïve people talk as if migrants will come, integrate, be accepted and live happily ever after when the reality for most will be very different. We can already see this across the UK and Europe where there have been various migrant influxes (e.g. post colonial) going back many decades and the subsequent creation of 'ghettos', underprivileged housing estates, no go areas, gang culture, ethnic rivalries etc. which has led to social unrest and riots. If it's already happening with the migrant communities we already have, how much more so when so many people have come so quickly and need so much help?

Following thebrutal rape of a ten year old boy in Vienna by an Iraqi migrant,
...
The 2015 conviction statistics show that 29,439 criminal convictions overall were of Austrians and 23,609 were of foreigners. Of 6,734 drugs convictions last year, 45 per cent were foreigners and some 14 per cent from just one national group — Afghanistan.
Of violent crimes, 2,560 of the 7,826 people convicted were foreign — 33 per cent — as were 35 per cent of those convicted of sexual offences,and 103 of those convicted of sexual offences, Kurier reports.

And what exactly should we be providing that would avoid the rape of a 10 year old boy?

[Osem]

Originally Posted by nomadking

And what exactly should we be providing that would avoid the rape of a 10 year old boy?

You've lost me there.

[Ramrod]

Originally Posted by Osem

You've lost me there.

I think that Nomad believes you are being too easy on the migrants.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Ramrod

I think that Nomad believes you are being too easy on the migrants.

Blimey that's a first.

I'll reiterate for him. We shouldn't be letting millions of migrants into the EU. Criminals should be treated like criminals whether migrants or not. The sort of behaviour a good number of them are exhibiting is disgusting and a serious problem which is becoming a threat to our way of life. The EU in general and Merkel in particular have created a huge Europe-wide problem and are still dithering about what to do having opened the floodgates. Our support for migrants should be focussed as close to their places or origin as possible and asylum only given to the most desperate. We cannot give sanctuary to all the world's persecuted, poor or needy and must give due regard to our way of life and the needs or our people. Those who have gained entry into the EU need to be processed as quickly as possible and the economic migrants returned to their places of origin. If we fail to do this and considerably strengthen the EU's borders, countless more will follow. Realistically there's little which can be done about the refugees who've made it into the EU now. The chances of them being sent back to a pile of ruins in Syria or wherever is remote but if they are going to be allowed to make new lives here we can only hope the powers that be make a better job of integrating them into our way of life than appears to have been the case to date. Unless we get to grips with this problem it's only going to get worse and require even more drastic action sooner or later. I'd rather we didn't wait until it's too late.

I think that's it. Phew!

[nomadking]

Originally Posted by Osem

You've lost me there.

You were blaming poverty, when they are vastly overrepresented in crimes that have nothing to do with it. You said, "They're in between a rock and a hard place in countries which, for whatever reason, can't or won't support them adequately.", stating that the countries weren't providing for their "needs", eg a "sexual emergency"?

An Iraqi asylum seeker has admitted to raping a 10-year-old boy at a public swimming pool because he was having a 'sexual emergency' after being separated from his wife for four months.