27-05-2018, 01:11
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#2101
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cf.mega pornstar
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 18,814
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Re: Unstoppable migration?
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Originally Posted by OLD BOY
Privatisation was good because it ensured the badly needed investment that was required.
What is so sacred about water in terms of the public/private debate? The water is free - what we are paying for is the means of getting a pure supply of it to our homes and the means of disposing of the waste as sewerage. We were relying on old Victorian pipes with no public money available to replace them. That's why water was privatised.
As for the railways, nobody surely who used the railways while under public sector control would want to go back to that! Pre-war trains, window frames so dirty that if you put your hand on them, you could only remove the grime with soap and water, revolting turned up sandwiches which I wouldn't feed to the birds.... Honestly, who wants that?
In my part of the world, we had a two-carriage train to London, which was not well used. The fact that we now have a modern eight-carriage service with most seats taken speaks volumes for the difference privatisation has made.
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What utter bovine excrement, there has been no real investment in water infrastructure and it's been loaded with debt
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As shocking is the way that the former owners of Thames, the Australian bank Macquarie, was able to pass its costs on to the public. Macquarie took on £2.8 billion of debt to buy the company; it then loaded £2 billion of Cayman Islands debt on to Thames Water and its customers, despite giving assurances to the water regulator Ofwat that it would do no such thing. Macquarie has taken its profits. According to Martin Blaiklock, an infrastructure consultant, its investors received returns of 15 to 19 per cent over 11 years — twice the expected level. All it has left behind is a £2 billion debt and a very bad smell.
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They promised to bring efficiency. Instead they have brought unsustainable levels of debt that, one way or another, the public will have to redeem. Researchers at Greenwich University say that in the past decade, the nine companies have made £18.8 billion of post-tax profits. Far from using the money to make the water system better, they have paid out £18.1 billion in dividends, and financed investment through loading £42 billion of debt on to consumers.
The university estimates the English are paying £2.3 billion more a year in water and sewerage bills than if the utility companies had remained in state ownership
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https://www.spectator.co.uk/2017/09/...ter-companies/
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27-05-2018, 04:24
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#2102
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Guest
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Re: Unstoppable migration?
Water and energy should be government owned and run imo they are utterly essential to the country and despite assurances that were given to the government when they initially privatised these utilities there hasn't been the level of infrastructure investment. All that's happened is private companies have at best taken all the profits or in some cases used them to offload debt from elsewhere with very minimal investment. I'd be happier paying my ever increasing utility bills to the government then having them used to pay dividends.
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27-05-2018, 17:40
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#2103
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Rise above the players
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Re: Unstoppable migration?
Quote:
Originally Posted by RizzyKing
Water and energy should be government owned and run imo they are utterly essential to the country and despite assurances that were given to the government when they initially privatised these utilities there hasn't been the level of infrastructure investment. All that's happened is private companies have at best taken all the profits or in some cases used them to offload debt from elsewhere with very minimal investment. I'd be happier paying my ever increasing utility bills to the government then having them used to pay dividends.
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Then I suppose the government would use the income it will derive to inflate the overseas aid budget rather than spending it appropriately!
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27-05-2018, 18:25
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#2104
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Guest
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Re: Unstoppable migration?
As I've said before the oversees aid budget brings in more money then it costs with all the conditions attached to receiving it and it would be more accurate to call it the bribe fund although it's often a target from those who don't understand how it works.
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27-05-2018, 18:33
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#2105
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Rise above the players
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Re: Unstoppable migration?
Quote:
Originally Posted by RizzyKing
As I've said before the oversees aid budget brings in more money then it costs with all the conditions attached to receiving it and it would be more accurate to call it the bribe fund although it's often a target from those who don't understand how it works.
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I wish I could believe that. If it brings more in than it costs, how come we still need to put money into the overseas aid budget every year?
If it pays for itself, why don't we just retain the income within the overseas aid budget and use that for grant aid purposes, thereby reducing the burden for the taxpayer? I would certainly find that acceptable.
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27-05-2018, 20:49
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#2106
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Guest
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Re: Unstoppable migration?
Because it's british industry that benefits rather then government and turn it round why would any government throw good money after bad if foreign aid bought no benefit to the UK. The money is given with the main condition being that british company's get any contracts that the money generates.
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27-05-2018, 21:31
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#2107
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Woke and proud !
Join Date: Jun 2004
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Re: Unstoppable migration?
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY
I wish I could believe that. If it brings more in than it costs, how come we still need to put money into the overseas aid budget every year?
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Overseas aid is 0.7% of our GDP, in the grand scale of things diddly squat but something we can be proud of. It's in our interests that other countries don't implode, think of the migration and world instability consequences, we would be affected.
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28-05-2018, 08:51
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#2108
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Re: Unstoppable migration?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K
Overseas aid is 0.7% of our GDP, in the grand scale of things diddly squat but something we can be proud of. It's in our interests that other countries don't implode, think of the migration and world instability consequences, we would be affected.
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Diddly squat? I'm sure the NHS would be rather grateful for such a sum of money!
So you think countries like China and India would implode if we stopped giving them crateloads of money in foreign aid? You've been reading too many articles in The Guardian, old chap.
---------- Post added at 08:51 ---------- Previous post was at 08:50 ----------
Quote:
Originally Posted by RizzyKing
Because it's british industry that benefits rather then government and turn it round why would any government throw good money after bad if foreign aid bought no benefit to the UK. The money is given with the main condition being that british company's get any contracts that the money generates.
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Why? My guess is that it gives some politicians a nice warm feeling inside.
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28-05-2018, 09:42
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#2109
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cf.mega pornstar
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 18,814
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Re: Unstoppable migration?
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY
Diddly squat? I'm sure the NHS would be rather grateful for such a sum of money!
So you think countries like China and India would implode if we stopped giving them crateloads of money in foreign aid? You've been reading too many articles in The Guardian, old chap.
---------- Post added at 08:51 ---------- Previous post was at 08:50 ----------
Why? My guess is that it gives some politicians a nice warm feeling inside.
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Rizzy is right, it's all about us rather than them
From the horses mouth
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Last week India rejected the British-built Typhoon jet as preferred candidate for a £6.3 billion warplane deal, despite the Development Secretary, Andrew Mitchell, saying that Britain’s aid to Delhi was partly “about seeking to sell Typhoon.”
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https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...-your-aid.html
There's three reasons we give aid
1. To increase British soft-power by creating an impression of a generous state willing to help poorer nations.
2. To directly benefit British companies, aid-workers and other professionals who are the main recipients of the government & private sector funds allocated as aid.
3. To further indirectly benefit British industry by using aid as leverage to get trade concessions, mining rights etc. from desperate countries looking for immediate financial help. For instance if British aid money pays for a hospital you will probably find a caveat saying Britain has to provide all the equipment in it, thus cutting out the competition forever
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28-05-2018, 15:18
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#2110
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Rise above the players
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Re: Unstoppable migration?
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy
Rizzy is right, it's all about us rather than them
From the horses mouth
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...-your-aid.html
There's three reasons we give aid
1. To increase British soft-power by creating an impression of a generous state willing to help poorer nations.
2. To directly benefit British companies, aid-workers and other professionals who are the main recipients of the government & private sector funds allocated as aid.
3. To further indirectly benefit British industry by using aid as leverage to get trade concessions, mining rights etc. from desperate countries looking for immediate financial help. For instance if British aid money pays for a hospital you will probably find a caveat saying Britain has to provide all the equipment in it, thus cutting out the competition forever
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A pretty cynical approach, isn't it, considering this should actually be about relieving absolute poverty and improving lives?
I think that 0.7% could be much better spent.
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28-05-2018, 21:31
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#2111
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cf.mega pornstar
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 18,814
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Re: Unstoppable migration?
Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY
A pretty cynical approach, isn't it, considering this should actually be about relieving absolute poverty and improving lives?
I think that 0.7% could be much better spent.
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I think it does improve lives, ours! It does benefit countries as well obviously and I suspect things like vaccination programmes have no conditions attached, can't be sure though. I think we should never have set a figure, if we spend 0.7% fine but don't put pressure yourself to achieve a set figure, that's when stupid things happen trying to fiddle figures.
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29-05-2018, 09:28
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#2112
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Rise above the players
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Re: Unstoppable migration?
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy
I think it does improve lives, ours! It does benefit countries as well obviously and I suspect things like vaccination programmes have no conditions attached, can't be sure though. I think we should never have set a figure, if we spend 0.7% fine but don't put pressure yourserlf to achieve a set figure, that's when stupid things happen trying to fiddle figures.
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On that, we most certainly agree.
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04-06-2018, 08:36
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#2113
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Woke and proud !
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Re: Unstoppable migration?
Good News.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics...side/#comments
Quote:
Theresa May expected to lift visa cap for doctors from outside the EU within weeks
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A bit late and she's waited until the NHS is on its knees. Why were skilled professionals that we need ever stopped from coming in the first place ?? Could it be knee jerk reaction to immigration paranoia and the tabloid press ? The same tabloid press that are warning of NHS crises ?
The xenophobic reaction to this in the Torygraph comments are a disgrace. The public aren't exempt from blame here - the politicians just follow them.
i.e. 'We don't want any more foreigners' - then
' I/my family can't get medical hope when we need it'
Or threads on forums like 'unstoppable migration'.....
Ideally of course we should be training enough medical professional of our own, but we haven't and are paying the price. Beggars can't be choosers.
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