11-09-2016, 22:15
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#586
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The Dark Satanic Mills
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: floating in the ether
Posts: 12,072
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Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien
Miliband opened up the membership to try and dilute the power of the union bosses over the party.
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You what?
Milliband was a Union puppet, put in place by the unions because they knew his brother would truly keep power away from them.
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11-09-2016, 22:32
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#587
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Inactive
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Right here!
Posts: 22,316
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Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
One man's puppet is another man's Corbyn.
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12-09-2016, 13:47
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#588
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Perfect Soldier
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Worthing West Sussex
Age: 67
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Posts: 11,014
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Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
Quote:
GAFFE-PRONE Labour leadership challenger Owen Smith has claimed he would “potentially” sign Britain up to the Euro and borderless Schengen area if he was Prime Minister.
The devout Europhile said he would fight the 2020 general election making a “really strong case for us to stay” in the EU, but if the country had already left then “hypothetically” he could apply for the UK to rejoin.
Struggling Mr Smith told the BBC on Sunday: “If we had gone into a further recession… then I think the sensible and responsible thing for a Labour government to do is to say we are better off in the European Union.”
Asked whether, as a new member, the UK would be obliged to sign up to the single currency and the Schengen Area, Mr Smith said: “Potentially, but again we are getting into hypotheticals built on hypotheticals.”
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Linky
Just which part of brexit does he not understand?
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12-09-2016, 15:29
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#589
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Inactive
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Leeds, West Yorkshire
Age: 46
Posts: 13,996
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Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
Quote:
Originally Posted by heero_yuy
Linky
Just which part of brexit does he not understand?
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Presumably the flip side of the campaigns after the vote to remain 40 years ago that eventually led to our voting to leave in June.
Getting kinda boring now the whinging about even the slightest bit of dissent to the Brexit mantra that we will be a glorious, free nation outside of the evil EU's shackles, any negative news is absolutely nothing to do with Brexit and to suggest otherwise is traitorous and a sign of stupidity.
If the view of the people changes, perhaps due to it becoming clear they were sold their vote based on lies it's perfectly reasonable to reflect those views. If a party wins an election with a key part of their manifesto being to rejoin the EU they've a mandate to do so.
Which part of that democracy allows people to continue making the case and debate even after a vote don't you understand?
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12-09-2016, 17:57
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#590
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Inactive
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Right here!
Posts: 22,316
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Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
Quote:
Originally Posted by heero_yuy
Linky
Just which part of brexit does he not understand?
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Well that's the way to negotiate effectively isn't it. Bit like Corbyn telling the world he'd never use our nuclear deterrent...
---------- Post added at 17:57 ---------- Previous post was at 15:57 ----------
Corbyn's seat could be abolished:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37342828
In the past I'd have expected howls of outrage to the effect that it's all a nasty Tory plot against the Labour 'messiah' but I have a feeling they'll be delighted to have Corbyn 'running' the circus for as long as possible.
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12-09-2016, 22:17
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#591
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Guest
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Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
I'm getting bored of some people constantly acting like everyone that voted for brexit only did so because of the leave campaign nothing at all to do with experience of 40+ years in the euro club. Clearly every brexit voter is such a moron that they couldn't possibly vote for brexit because they genuinely felt it was the right thing to do or because their experience wasn't pro EU no only remainers did that because they are so much smarter then brexit voters.
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12-09-2016, 23:47
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#592
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Inactive
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Leeds, West Yorkshire
Age: 46
Posts: 13,996
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Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
Quote:
Originally Posted by RizzyKing
I'm getting bored of some people constantly acting like everyone that voted for brexit only did so because of the leave campaign nothing at all to do with experience of 40+ years in the euro club. Clearly every brexit voter is such a moron that they couldn't possibly vote for brexit because they genuinely felt it was the right thing to do or because their experience wasn't pro EU no only remainers did that because they are so much smarter then brexit voters.
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Just as well no-one on here has done that, at least that I've read for a while.
The experience thing is getting boring, too. Very few of us were actually qualified to make an educated decision on this, regardless of 'experience'. I certainly wasn't. For better or worse it's been a while since many of us blindly deferred to those older and more 'experienced'.
---------- Post added at 23:47 ---------- Previous post was at 23:41 ----------
So here's your 'experience'.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RizzyKing
If they come to the UK via the EU we have no obligation to accomadate them and just because millions want to come here doesn't mean we should take any of them and pictures no longer bother me in the slightest being honest i don't care about any of them in calais I've seen the consequences of past immigration into the UK and the damage it's done i don't want anymore of it. Am i a git or a nasty piece of work don't know and i don't care as i see my kids struggling to get ahead in the UK now and their kids will struggle further and that's my primary concern not people looking to have a better life handed on a plate to them.
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Wonder who you're planning on blaming for the problems when migration is lower again? Perhaps you should look more closely at the failure to build adequate numbers of houses when 300,000 a year was quite doable in the past, or not properly funding the health service in the face of an ageing population. Many of the issues your kids are facing are nothing to do with immigrants and everything to do with the policies adopted by Conservatives and, then, to a lesser but still present extent, Labour.
Our immigration rate is way lower than other places, including some with the points based immigration so craved by many. They manage. We have grossly mismanaged as a country.
You're neither a git or a nasty piece of work, although the comment about people 'looking to have a better life handed on a plate to them' isn't exactly pleasant, but the blame for the issues your kids are facing, and I fear for my own also, belongs elsewhere.
Last edited by Ignitionnet; 12-09-2016 at 23:54.
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13-09-2016, 02:54
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#593
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Guest
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Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
Yeah we can keep taking hundreds of thousands hell why not a few more million like the last decade it doesn't create any problems does it.
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13-09-2016, 06:46
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#594
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cf.mega pornstar
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 18,823
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Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osem
Well that's the way to negotiate effectively isn't it. Bit like Corbyn telling the world he'd never use our nuclear deterrent...
---------- Post added at 17:57 ---------- Previous post was at 15:57 ----------
Corbyn's seat could be abolished:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37342828
In the past I'd have expected howls of outrage to the effect that it's all a nasty Tory plot against the Labour 'messiah' but I have a feeling they'll be delighted to have Corbyn 'running' the circus for as long as possible.
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Iirc he's seat is being amalgamated with diane abbot's and another female labour mps seat, again iirc if a female labour mp stands down an all female shortlist is required to replace her, bit more bad luck for jeremy if that's so
---------- Post added at 06:46 ---------- Previous post was at 06:43 ----------
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ignitionnet
Just as well no-one on here has done that, at least that I've read for a while.
The experience thing is getting boring, too. Very few of us were actually qualified to make an educated decision on this, regardless of 'experience'. I certainly wasn't. For better or worse it's been a while since many of us blindly deferred to those older and more 'experienced'.
---------- Post added at 23:47 ---------- Previous post was at 23:41 ----------
So here's your 'experience'.
Wonder who you're planning on blaming for the problems when migration is lower again? Perhaps you should look more closely at the failure to build adequate numbers of houses when 300,000 a year was quite doable in the past, or not properly funding the health service in the face of an ageing population. Many of the issues your kids are facing are nothing to do with immigrants and everything to do with the policies adopted by Conservatives and, then, to a lesser but still present extent, Labour.
Our immigration rate is way lower than other places, including some with the points based immigration so craved by many. They manage. We have grossly mismanaged as a country.
You're neither a git or a nasty piece of work, although the comment about people 'looking to have a better life handed on a plate to them' isn't exactly pleasant, but the blame for the issues your kids are facing, and I fear for my own also, belongs elsewhere.
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Indeed most of what was said about the EU was more to do with successive government's and their policies. I remember, well I don't, I've heard about the halcyon days when labour and conservative government's used to try and out do each other with social housing building programmes
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13-09-2016, 13:05
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#595
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Inactive
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Leeds, West Yorkshire
Age: 46
Posts: 13,996
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Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
Quote:
Originally Posted by RizzyKing
Yeah we can keep taking hundreds of thousands hell why not a few more million like the last decade it doesn't create any problems does it.
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The migrants from the EU were unquestionably a net positive. If the governments of the day didn't see fit to properly invest the financial returns from their working and paying their taxes here that was their failing.
EU migrants were, for the most part, young, healthy and childless. They worked, paid taxes, drew relatively little out.
The same can't be said for large groups of migrants from Southern Asia, emigrating here as hangovers from the Empire days. They're the ones who you alluded to as demanding that the country accommodate them. The most Polish tended to want was a sklep that sold their exotic sausages and Tyskie to wash them down.
Guess which group Brexit doesn't impact?
Oops.
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13-09-2016, 13:31
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#596
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Remoaner
Cable Forum Team
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 32,271
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Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre
You what?
Milliband was a Union puppet, put in place by the unions because they knew his brother would truly keep power away from them.
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It's what I said. The changes to the membership were on of the measures he took after the Falkirk scandal to curtail union leaders.
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13-09-2016, 22:37
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#597
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cf.mega poster
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 4,439
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Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ignitionnet
The migrants from the EU were unquestionably a net positive. If the governments of the day didn't see fit to properly invest the financial returns from their working and paying their taxes here that was their failing.
EU migrants were, for the most part, young, healthy and childless. They worked, paid taxes, drew relatively little out.
The same can't be said for large groups of migrants from Southern Asia, emigrating here as hangovers from the Empire days. They're the ones who you alluded to as demanding that the country accommodate them. The most Polish tended to want was a sklep that sold their exotic sausages and Tyskie to wash them down.
Guess which group Brexit doesn't impact?
Oops.
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You raise an interesting point. Brexit was partly won by people who wanted zero or much reduced net migration. The EU was the target for this ill but, looking at the figures on MigrationWatch:
Net Migration Statistics
Quote:
EU net migration is currently 184,000 compared to 188,000 from outside the EU.
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This "other" net migration was not discussed, from memory, but as you point out is likely to be a bigger issue for the UK. The irony ..
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14-09-2016, 06:34
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#598
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Inactive
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Sutton
Services: Virgin TIVO XL package & Sky Movies and Sports HD XXL broadband & superhub
Posts: 615
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Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
it was also won on the 350 million a week to the NHS
I am getting more confident each day that this will not happen, either through 2nd vote, vote on the deal or an all but name Eu membership
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14-09-2016, 06:39
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#599
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Guest
Location: newcastle upon tyne
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Posts: n/a
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Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
Quote:
Originally Posted by ianch99
You raise an interesting point. Brexit was partly won by people who wanted zero or much reduced net migration. The EU was the target for this ill but, looking at the figures on MigrationWatch:
Net Migration Statistics
This "other" net migration was not discussed, from memory, but as you point out is likely to be a bigger issue for the UK. The irony ..
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The "other" migration could be controlled with enough political will ,Eu migration could not .Having the ability to control migration from the EU is what matters and the only reason why some voted to leave
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14-09-2016, 18:20
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#600
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Inactive
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Right here!
Posts: 22,316
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Re: Corbyn's kerfuffle
Quote:
Originally Posted by martyh
The "other" migration could be controlled with enough political will ,Eu migration could not .Having the ability to control migration from the EU is what matters and the only reason why some voted to leave
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Yes, with the political will (clearly still lacking) there's a lot which could and is needs to be done to control non EU migration and the abuses of it. The virtually unfettered right of EU citizens to travel and work anywhere they choose (including any of the countless thousands of migrants who'll sooner or later be given citizenship of other EU states) was and still is a major issue, just not the only one. Non EU migration was irrelevant to the Brexit debate but it's certainly just as big a problem to those of us who believe that we ought to be able to control both the number and nature of people allowed to come, work, reside and remain in the UK.
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