How do virtual cards work?
06-05-2016, 18:15
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#1
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cf.mega poster
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 10,062
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How do virtual cards work?
Now that the TiVo STB's use virtual cards, I was wondering how they work and why they didn't use them earlier.
It must have cost VM a small fortune when they swapped everybodys cards after the introduction of Nagra 3.
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06-05-2016, 20:03
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#2
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cf.mega poster
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 8,901
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Re: How do virtual cards work?
The TiVos effectively have smartcards built into the box hardware. The older boxes don't have this so need a physical card.
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06-05-2016, 20:29
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#3
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cf.mega poster
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,065
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Re: How do virtual cards work?
...but I thought ALL TIVos can operate cardless now so it can't be implemented in hardware.
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06-05-2016, 21:01
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#4
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cf.mega poster
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 8,901
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Re: How do virtual cards work?
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobboEdin
...but I thought ALL TIVos can operate cardless now so it can't be implemented in hardware.
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 Why can't it be?
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07-05-2016, 15:19
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#5
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cf.mega poster
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,065
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Re: How do virtual cards work?
Quote:
Originally Posted by spiderplant
Why can't it be? |
I guess it could be if the hardware was there originally in all TiVos but just implemented recently.
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07-05-2016, 17:32
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#6
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cf.mega poster
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 10,062
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Re: How do virtual cards work?
Someone who knows more about such things than myself has given me the following response as to why Sky don't move over to virtual cards to save money:
"Virtual cards are far too insecure - it has been tried quite a few times in the past by broadcasters but AFAIK none now use such technology - I wonder why? A viewing card has the equivqlent of a small computer on it - a processor, ROM and RAM - this would have to be built into the receiver in hardware and would be a lot easier to hack - it took NDS using electron microscopes quite a while to break the encryption used by ITV digital and others. Any encryption can be broken given enough time and effort and to circumvent this the encryption companis change their encryption (both hardware within the card and code) on a regular basis and virtually immediately when their system is broken, To do this with "virtual cards" would require replacement of hardware within the STBs or they would be rendered obsolete. This would be far more expensive than a new viewing card".
I have pointed out that VM use virtual cards for their TiVo boxes. I also believe that BT, TalkTalk, Plusnet and YouView use virtual cards too.
Does this new system really make VM encryption less secure??
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07-05-2016, 18:18
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#7
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Virgin Media Staff
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Manchester
Services: 360 x2, Maxit TV, Sky Sports and Sky Cinema. Gig1
Posts: 17,929
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Re: How do virtual cards work?
No, it doesn't.
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I work for Virgin Media but all views are my own.
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14-05-2016, 17:32
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#8
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cf.member
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: UK
Services: BT Youview, Humax Freesat
Posts: 14
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Re: How do virtual cards work?
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardCoulter
Does this new system really make VM encryption less secure??
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They can just update the STB software if the encryption gets compromised, versus having to replace 4+ million smart cards. Also does anyone know if Virgin still use Nagravision or are they using Verimatrix like comhem does with their cardless tivo?
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14-05-2016, 17:35
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#9
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Perfect Soldier
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Re: How do virtual cards work?
I believe they're using Nagravision 3 at the moment. So far not broken but only a matter of time.
__________________
History is much like an endless waltz: The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever.
However history will change with my coronation - Mariemaia Khushrenada
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14-05-2016, 20:03
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#10
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cf.mega poster
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 10,062
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Re: How do virtual cards work?
Quote:
Originally Posted by andreww342003
They can just update the STB software if the encryption gets compromised, versus having to replace 4+ million smart cards. Also does anyone know if Virgin still use Nagravision or are they using Verimatrix like comhem does with their cardless tivo?
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Which begs the question as to why they used actual cards in the first place
Perhaps the technology simply wasn't available at the time??
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14-05-2016, 20:56
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#11
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Inactive
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Leeds, West Yorkshire
Age: 45
Posts: 13,996
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Re: How do virtual cards work?
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardCoulter
Someone who knows more about such things than myself has given me the following response as to why Sky don't move over to virtual cards to save money:
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Big difference: every single VM box has an always-on return path. Sky boxes don't.
No reason why VM can't run software CAMs.
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15-05-2016, 16:16
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#12
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cf.mega poster
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 10,062
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Re: How do virtual cards work?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ignitionnet
Big difference: every single VM box has an always-on return path. Sky boxes don't.
No reason why VM can't run software CAMs.
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Sky used to use the landline connection as a return path, AFAIK they now use the internet.
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