Apple to cough up some tax

Apple and the Irish Government will appeal so it will be interesting to see what happens.

I think the interesting issue here though is if this is the EU infringing on the Irish Government's tax affairs or if this is the only way we can get companies to pay tax since there will otherwise always be another country willing to go lower? The agreement they had was an effective tax rate of 0.005% according to the EU.

I also wonder even if Ireland's appeal fails if Apple will be made to pay up if they had a legal agreement with the Irish government or, if the agreement is illegal, if it means it never took effect. Clearly Ireland feel the continued business of Apple and others in Ireland is preferable to any windfall in back taxes.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Damien

Apple and the Irish Government will appeal so it will be interesting to see what happens.

I think the interesting issue here though is if this is the EU infringing on the Irish Government's tax affairs or if this is the only way we can get companies to pay tax since there will otherwise always be another country willing to go lower? The agreement they had was an effective tax rate of 0.005% according to the EU.

I also wonder even if Ireland's appeal fails if Apple will be made to pay up if they had a legal agreement with the Irish government or, if the agreement is illegal, if it means it never took effect. Clearly Ireland feel the continued business of Apple and others in Ireland is preferable to any windfall in back taxes.

Lawyers will get richer I suspect...

Well the US is up in arms over this claiming unfair this, that and the other as a company has been expected to pay tax. Apple and many others have been making very good profits off the back of ordinary tax paying people and seem to think they don't need to pay tax as a company. Presumedly we're supposed to be grateful to them for selling us their products expecting or asking them to contribute to the countries that allow them their profits is just plain stupid

[TheDaddy]

Someone said last night apple paid 50 quid in tax for every million they made, no wonder it was found illegal...

Corporate tax is globally screwed up allowing a lot of company's to make good profits and avoid responsibility and there are always some nations willing to undercut everyone else if it means they get a little extra. Not sure this has a solution as i cannot see every country signing upto and standing by a global corporate tax agreement, but one thing that should be easier is that none of these company's get to promote themselves as responsible, ethical or any of the other rubbish they use to con consumer's.

[papa smurf]

apple maketh and the tax man taketh away -welcome to the EU you all have a nice day now

[ianch99]

It is ironic that it is the much maligned EU that is standing up to Apple. I cannot see this Government doing something similar.

[papa smurf]

Originally Posted by ianch99

It is ironic that it is the much maligned EU that is standing up to Apple. I cannot see this Government doing something similar.

equal misery for all -its in the charter

[adzii_nufc]

The US is up in arms What a shame, such a backwards country full of sheep ran by horrid people.

As for Apple, it's a also a dying shame a company that makes profit taking ideas from elsewhere, lowers the specs of the product, adds an exclusive OS to it then charging double will have to pay tax.

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by RizzyKing

Corporate tax is globally screwed up allowing a lot of company's to make good profits and avoid responsibility and there are always some nations willing to undercut everyone else if it means they get a little extra. Not sure this has a solution as i cannot see every country signing upto and standing by a global corporate tax agreement, but one thing that should be easier is that none of these company's get to promote themselves as responsible, ethical or any of the other rubbish they use to con consumer's.

They'll screw it up for themselves with greed, what's to stop government replacing corperation tax with a tax on profits made in this country?

Originally Posted by ianch99

It is ironic that it is the much maligned EU that is standing up to Apple. I cannot see this Government doing something similar.

Not sure about standing up to Apple ,It's the EU's very nature to interfere with other countries they can't help themselves

Anyhoo ,who gets the tax money if Apple pay and assuming it's Ireland what's to stop them giving most of it back in rebates and tax breaks

Originally Posted by martyh

Not sure about standing up to Apple ,It's the EU's very nature to interfere with other countries they can't help themselves

Anyhoo ,who gets the tax money if Apple pay and assuming it's Ireland what's to stop them giving most of it back in rebates and tax breaks

Because that too would be illegal state aid.

I think it's a problem either way with the EU here. If they don't intervene then what is to stop a race to the bottom where large corporations pit countries against each other to get the very lowest tax rate possible without having to actually base any real part of their operations there? It's fine if it's corporation tax but that's paid for everybody and governments have expenses to cover but if it's unique to the big companies then any nation can offer a pittance of a tax rate just to get some cash and the bigger nations, who've paid for much of the state they profit from, will get nothing.

On the other hand it is intervening in tax policy.

---------- Post added at 20:35 ---------- Previous post was at 20:26 ----------

Originally Posted by adzii_nufc

As for Apple, it's a also a dying shame a company that makes profit taking ideas from elsewhere, lowers the specs of the product, adds an exclusive OS to it then charging double will have to pay tax.

Sort of the popular but incorrect view of Apple. Most companies 'take ideas from elsewhere', Google wasn't the first search engine and Facebook wasn't the first social network. What Apple do well is execute on those ideas. Touch screen devices wasn't first with the iPhone but no one did it well before then. TouchID was miles ahead of anything on Android when it came to the iPhone. They introduced the 64 bit chip on phones a couple of years before their rivals thought it would be time (leading to the rushed disaster which was the QC 808/810 chips)

As for specs well Apple has excellent specs for the phone. The A9 chip from last September rivals, even beats, the Galaxy Note 7. They're starting to fall behind on things like the screen but when it comes to chipsets Apple are doing far more exciting things than Qualcomm. They're easily the most exciting chipset company right now although AMD are doing cool things with Polaris.

If you're interested in processors and such this is a great breakdown of the A9 chip: http://www.anandtech.com/show/9686/t...-plus-review/2

Originally Posted by Damien

Because that too would be illegal state aid.

I think it's a problem either way with the EU here. If they don't intervene then what is to stop a race to the bottom where large corporations pit countries against each other to get the very lowest tax rate possible without having to actually base any real part of their operations there? It's fine if it's corporation tax but that's paid for everybody and governments have expenses to cover but if it's unique to the big companies then any nation can offer a pittance of a tax rate just to get some cash and the bigger nations, who've paid for much of the state they profit from, will get nothing.

On the other hand it is intervening in tax policy

I personally think that tax should be up to the individual country ,i think it better to encourage companies with low tax levels to set up business which then increases employment and further increases the tax revenue of said country .

Originally Posted by martyh

I personally think that tax should be up to the individual country ,i think it better to encourage companies with low tax levels to set up business which then increases employment and further increases the tax revenue of said country .

Well it can do and that's what corporation tax does IMO. However if you can create almost a shell entity in the lowest tax environment possible then the ultimate end result is poorer countries and richer companies. 0.005% is madness and wasn't the tax rate paid by most other Irish companies. A balance needs to be struck between the benefit you've suggested, which I agree with, without going to the extremes.

The part I do dislike though is that Apple did seem to strike this deal legally with Ireland and operate within the law so I am not sure about the retrospective element of this judgement.

To be honest the whole thing multi-national tax situation needs to be looked at. The other element here is how do you decide what is profit on a product where most of the design and development happened elsewhere.

[Osem]

With the world getting smaller, it's not only the tax arrangements of global companies which need to be better controlled IMHO, it's their insatiable appetite for buying up competitor and other companies to give themselves an ever bigger share of the world pie.