Benefit cuts are fuelling abuse of disabled people, say charities
 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/20...ther_multiline

Depressing reading.:(

Re: Benefit cuts are fuelling abuse of disabled people, say charities
 

This was bound to happen with the propoganda the government put out.

all we can do is sit back and watch.

society are and always will be sheep. they can't and never will see through the hypnotism. they're too weak.

all we can do is sit back and watch.

Re: Benefit cuts are fuelling abuse of disabled people, say charities
 

It is very possible that the quoted 'insult' was just joking around.

It was Labour who started any so called 'campaign' with the introduction of ESA.

Re: Benefit cuts are fuelling abuse of disabled people, say charities
 

Did you read the article?Which insult do you think was meant to be a joke?:confused:

We have had lots of cases recently where vulnerable people with learning difficulties have been targeted by bullies and it has even resulted in one mother committing suicide after killing her daughter because of abuse by a local yobbo gang.This before all of this campaign began.I can see more vulnerable disabled people being targeted by such because the government is supporting the idea that the vast majority of disabled are not entitled to our help and compassion in their pathetic attempts to sell their austerity package.It doesn't take much for such **** to use any excuse.We will probably see people hauled out of wheelchairs to prove they are faking..or be falsely reported on the fraud line.

I already bought the idea of austerity but not at the expense of those unable to defend themselves.:mad:

Re: Benefit cuts are fuelling abuse of disabled people, say charities
 

There appears to be one alleged specific 'insult' mentioned in the article.:rolleyes: I had read the article to see exactly how many real examples were given to back up the claims. I found just the one flimsy example. How many specific examples are you saying that there are in the article?

The other abuse case you are mention has absolutely nothing to do with this story in relation to benefit cuts.

Re: Benefit cuts are fuelling abuse of disabled people, say charities
 

There always has been and will always be abuse of disabled people .The fact that some charities have chosen to link such abuse to government policy on benefit fraud and welfare cuts is a disgrace .In doing this the charities will segregate the disabled section of society even more .What do these charities think will happen ?do they think the government will do a 'u' turn and cancel all the reforms based on a few stories from charities and organisations we know are against the cuts ?

Re: Benefit cuts are fuelling abuse of disabled people, say charities
 

I think it's relative to what side of the fence you're on. I take it you're not sick or disabled. It's like when you have a relationship breakdown, you notice that every song on the radio is all you and the breakup so to speak. So to me when I read that article it's like 'at last' something positive (spoken up for) to the plight of the sick and disabled instead of all the vilifications of late. But I'm sure you probably won't agree with that either.

I see you do have a lot so say about benefits yet it really doesn't affect you, of course you are well entitled to your opinion but because myself being on the other side of the fence I obviously see things slightly differently, because it matters more so.

I'm sure you read what BBC says and watch their programs like saints and sinners highlighting all the scroungers that are claiming benefits that are better off than you and that you have formed your opinion based on something that doesn't affect you as a whole. I'm sure no matter what they now say in the media it will not sway you to see what it is really like to a lot of people, and it's that kind of ignorance those that are hit have to put up with and fight.

Well done the Guardian for that article.

Re: Benefit cuts are fuelling abuse of disabled people, say charities
 

I bet that young girl was on benefits though so it does have relevance.The disabled already face all sorts of problems without having their situation trivialised as just a jokey insult.

Re: Benefit cuts are fuelling abuse of disabled people, say charities
 

Your ignorance is astounding .How you can say it doesn't affect me beggars belief .No i am not disabled or in receipt of any benefits and no i don't watch (as a rule) any of the programs you mentioned ,i don't need to ,i see it with my own 2 eyes every time i go into such a persons house to work .Maybe you should start thinking how lucky you are that you live in a country that gives you disability/sickness/unemployment payments instead of moaning that the people that support you i.e the tax payer want the money managed in a more efficient way so that we don't have to keep paying more into a system that is riddled with fraud and misuse

Re: Benefit cuts are fuelling abuse of disabled people, say charities
 

Totally agree ,even fat people are classed as disabled nowadays ,and before anyone castigates me i know that some weight problems can be caused by medical issues but it should never be classed as a disability imo

Re: Benefit cuts are fuelling abuse of disabled people, say charities
 

The government is not suggesting anything of the sort.

The government are not in control of the compassion of the population.

If you want to help a disabled person, and show them compassion I'm pretty sure you're allowed to do so without government interference

Re: Benefit cuts are fuelling abuse of disabled people, say charities
 

They better remember who to vote for next time there is an election!!! :mad:

Is this what this nation has come to, the disabled people and poor and even the middle class paying the price for the wrongdoings of the rich super-rich and major companies!!! :(

Re: Benefit cuts are fuelling abuse of disabled people, say charities
 

So what's new? It's always been like that. :(

Re: Benefit cuts are fuelling abuse of disabled people, say charities
 

Well It is about time things changed!

Re: Benefit cuts are fuelling abuse of disabled people, say charities
 

The current wave of attack on fraudulent benefit claimants has hit the most vulnerable first. Either because they do not have the ability to fight their corner or because they are single under 35 and live on their own. Top this off with the dreadful tabloid slant on "scroungers" and this is the result.

The benefit savvy know how to twist the system to suit & will continue to laugh all the way to the bank. Whilst the easy targets suffer the abuse.

Until there are clear signals that abuse of the vulnerable is wrong there is no hope. Judging by current appeal rates ATOS is one of the worst culprits.

Re: Benefit cuts are fuelling abuse of disabled people, say charities
 

It is about time victims of Benefit cuts, got together and formed a poltical bloc, so when next time there is a election, they vote the Tories/Lib Dems out!!!

Re: Benefit cuts are fuelling abuse of disabled people, say charities
 

:LOL:

Re: Benefit cuts are fuelling abuse of disabled people, say charities
 

And who was it that introduced ESA?:rolleyes:

Re: Benefit cuts are fuelling abuse of disabled people, say charities
 

Exactly.

Re: Benefit cuts are fuelling abuse of disabled people, say charities
 

Well I just hope there are enough decent people like us about to protect the more vulnerable disabled from abuse. :erm:

Re: Benefit cuts are fuelling abuse of disabled people, say charities
 

Wasn't it quoted on this very forum recently that by the governments own figures fraud AND OVERPAYMENTS amounted to 2.5 billion now i would dearly love to see fraud cut to zero but it is never going to happen. Whilst a substantial sum of money is lost to the two things above as a country is it that much that it justifys the condemning of the sick and disabled even if i wasn't a claimant i would say no (actually had that attitude before i was forced to give up work). There is a campaign to label all claimants as frauds, scroungers, lead swingers and basically burdens to the country it was started by labour and has been picked up with gusto by this coalition and with the help of rags like the daily mail the perception that if your claiming your a fraud is sadly spreading.

Unless your sick and disabled you really don't have a clue just how much hostility there is towards us and it is becoming a regular thing. I manage to get into my town centre every couple of weeks (it's a 350 metre walk by which time i need to take two painkillers and sit down for an hour) we go to a cafe where we have a breakfast me and the wife and for the last six visits there has been a smartbackside sitting making stupid comments about how i shouldn't have the benefit to afford a meal in a cafe. I have seen him and his merry bunch of cretins also ridiculing other people out and about in the town in wheelchairs and mobility scooter things (although i often rage against those mobility things but).

I am sorry i have a genetic desease beyond my control that will eventually mean i canoot even move around my house to any decent standard i am sorry i havn't just gone off and swallowed all my pills to make things easier. Can the people in this country make their mind up once and for all do you want a welfare state lets have a damn vote on it. If you vote no then people like me will know where we stand and can do whatever we are able to try and live or if you do then stop expecting me to get down and thank you all the damn time for money that i get because i have always been grateful to the taxpayer in this country for the tax they pay that allows our system but lately i am getting sick and tired of being targetted because of something i cannot help.

Being honest if it were not for my wife and close family i think i may well have seriously thought about suicide because living day in and day out with no hope of complete cure with a level of pain that makes the worst migraine feel like a minor hangover isn't a barrel of laughs. Sorry bit more rage then i planned but i am really getting sick of it as it is becoming almost a daily thing with someone or something hitting at claimants and usually with no practical experience of living on benfits it gets you mad.

Re: Benefit cuts are fuelling abuse of disabled people, say charities
 

:hugs: RizzyKing.

Re: Benefit cuts are fuelling abuse of disabled people, say charities
 

RizzyKing that about sums up how alot of us feel now :(

Re: Benefit cuts are fuelling abuse of disabled people, say charities
 

The government have a lot to answer for and it seems your mission to have cuts driven through will stop at nothing, I find this post of yours sickening.

I remember an interview from cameron on tv where he refered to taxpayers as normal people so in his mind he already has a segregation of people where normal people work, have rights etc. and those who dont are of a lower class with lower rights. We have ideas about things like getting credit companies to pass on info to government regarding credit cards etc. which the idea behind it is to financially restrict people on welfare. Nearly all government policies are removing independendence from vulnerable people as they trying to remove state help which will only lead them to needing families to take them in removing all independance and self confidence.

Labour are also guilty as Im well aware of the propoganda during their reign also, its sickening that both major parties are pretty much the same on this.

Whats notable is the bbc has a lot of anti welfare stories, their panaroma has aired multiple anti welfare programes, eastenders has had anti welfare storylines, and MP's interviewed repeatedly spout lies and rubbish to the news. This over a number of years has manipulated the public into what they are now. Shameless on channel4 hasnt helped the situation either of course. That has a old lady faking a disability in a wheel chair and a long term dole claimant as one of the main characters who spends all day in the boozer. Although at least dispatches is much more balanced than panaroma as well as channel 4 news.

I also find it ironic these sort of stories are never printed by the likes of the daily mail and the sun. Yet they have no issue calling claimants all sorts of names like 'scroungers'.

---------- Post added at 03:25 ---------- Previous post was at 03:21 ----------

Its only the house of lords who seem to have any sympathy for the disabled.

Both labour and the tories have attacked the sick and vulnerable.

---------- Post added at 03:45 ---------- Previous post was at 03:25 ----------

You need to stop trying to be a doctor.

For example I used to have days where I would walk to the GP and back, my journey would start out with me walking normally down the road, maybe 2, maybe 3 roads, the more the better. Usually I would be having problems before I get there and the last bit of walking I would be resorted to one step at a time, holding onto fences walls etc. The walk back would be much more diffilcult.

In regards to the NHS they are pretty aweful, I think its area dependent and a lot dependent how good your GP is and especially how sympathetic your GP is.

In all my health problems I have been very pro active in seeking medical help, often going to the GP/hospital in huge amounts of pain but it had to be done if I wanted treatment, I have also resorted to going to a&e numerous times as well.

The general problems I have come across are these.

1 - GPs refuse to do home visits, my GPs all seem to have age discrimination and a flat policy that if you under 65 you dont get a home visit.
2 - A tendency to overbook patients and then have them waiting in waiting rooms, this is a bigger issue than you may think, if you ill, in pain and its hard for you to get out, its a BIG problem to have to wait in a waiting room for an hour or more to see someone, much better to wait at home and then go there and see someone straight away. If they cant see me until 4pm then the appointment should be 4pm not 3pm and waiting an hour. Also the risk of catching things like viruses increases if you sitting in waiting rooms, for people who are already ill that can be quite critical.
3 - GPs refusing to reffer me for things like scans, x-rays etc. I have had to shout at my GP numerous times to get reffered, as they seem to just want to rescribe some painkillers and anti biotics and be done with it, I think again age discrimination comes into this and there seems to be a lazy attitude that if you not old then you cant get certian illnesses. Maybe they think I am putting my problems on I dont know. To give you an idea of a current problem, my entire lower leg is hard, red, with some infections, bloated, and now my feet have bloated up. My GP said I just have a dry skin issue. Yet this problem only kicks off in the cold (like when it snows) and has all the hallmarks of a blood circulation problem, in addition I did a self diabetes test which was positive, but they refuse to look into it. My GP is hard as rock and has no sympathy at all. I had a hospital specialist tell my GP to refer me to a dermatologist and the GP has refused to do it. Then the GP discharged me from the hospital by himself as he got sick of the specialist arguing with him which I am currently considering legal action over (happened 2 weeks ago).
4 - when at the hospital doctors are usually more sympathetic but I still think there is a degree of lazyness, because they are simply overwhlemed with patients. my eye infection which I am now in year 3, they have never done a scan of my eye to check for objects behind my eye, yet my sister under a different health authority had a eye scan when she had a suspected stroke. This eye infection under normal circumstances would stop me working, I have no doubt at all. It causes me aggro at random points of the day and is unpredictable. So I would never be able to work reliably for 8 hours a day with the problem. The saving grace is I work for myself so I can work round it.

I did have one very good GP some years back, he was a temporary GP after mine had retired and he was very good, I got reffered for numerous MRI scans, physiotherapy, whenever there was delays he pushed the hospital to speed them up and he supported me on a welfare claim. He was a brilliant doctor, he even rang me up to tell me about a blood test result. Unfortenatly it seems out of about 10 different GPs he is a one off.


The NHS is not all its cracked up to be, my personal experience leads me to think its a great emergency service but substandard for non life threatening long term conditions.

Re: Benefit cuts are fuelling abuse of disabled people, say charities
 

Trouble is the campaign against Disability Hate Crime has had relatively little publicity compared to the press "scrounger" headlines. And in tough times the lazy will always pick the easy target. This must be stopped. :fit:

Re: Benefit cuts are fuelling abuse of disabled people, say charities
 

That's nice for you ,now back to real world .As has been explained to you and others on countless occasions we need to make the cuts because we can't afford the welfare system in the form it is in .It is or was too easy to claim the benefits making the system rife with fraud and misuse.We couldn't afford it 20yrs ago but we didn't have a government willing to address the problem instead of burying their head in the sand .

I would dearly love to see that interview because i strongly suspect that he didn't say that in the context you want it to mean

Both parties are guilty of ensuring that we have a viable welfare system that the country can afford by weeding out the fraudsters and those on disability benefits that they shouldn't be .As i and others have said (but it doesn't fit with your paranoid views so you ignore them)there are many claimants who are on the wrong benefits ,there are people who can work even though they are not 100% fit and there are people who are just out and out defrauding the system .Yes it is going to be hard for disabled people to claim benefits but guess what ,that just makes disabled people the same as everybody else ,it's life ,it's a struggle even for able bodied people ,get over it and deal with it instead of whinging and whining that it's a bit harder to get the benefit .
You need to look at the reality of life in GB at the moment the golden era of massive government spending on services such as welfare is over .All services are being cut for everyone and people on benefits have to make their own small contribution along with everyone else ,to think otherwise is just plain selfish

Re: Benefit cuts are fuelling abuse of disabled people, say charities
 

martyh still got your rose tinted glasses on I see.

yeah the 0.3% fraud we cant afford its crippling the country. The massive 1 billion a year. yet we can afford to write of 10s of billions of taxes. The excuse its to cut the fraud is a front, the truth is they just want to reduce the help given to the vulnerable. However I am glad you stand out in this thread and that others arent as brainwashed and blind to the truth.

Question for you.

Are you one of those who thinks fraud should always be a priority until it reaches zero percent? ie. you cant tolerate 'any' fraud. Even if it means vulnerable people not getting help.

Life isnt equally hard for everyone and you really are so out of touch its unreal.

Re: Benefit cuts are fuelling abuse of disabled people, say charities
 

Again you refuse to see the reality of the stuation .The figures you quote are based on known fraud .The government have no idea how many people are defrauding the system because they haven't been caught yet At best the figures are a educated guess based on past known fraud and anti fraud initiatives.You may want to have a look at these figures from the DWP.And again you refuse to accept that people who can work ,albeit with restrictions,are claiming full disability benefits intended for people who genuinely cannot work ,that may be intentional or it may not ,it is a overly complicated system with far too many different benefits but it is still misuse .All these major faults in the system are trying to be addressed in the reforms, as they should be

and i have not said that life is equally as hard for everyone , i said ,
"it's a struggle even for able bodied people" so don't try to twist my words

Re: Benefit cuts are fuelling abuse of disabled people, say charities
 

It about time the government crackd down on the wealthy, not the disabled!!! :mad:

Vote for a minor party until they do!! :td:

---------- Post added at 10:49 ---------- Previous post was at 10:48 ----------



---------- Post added at 10:54 ---------- Previous post was at 10:49 ----------

We can afford huge government spending and decent benifits if the governments cracked down on Tax Evasion!!!

Free Market Capitalism and Unequal Democracy has ruined the UK and the World and we have to pay for it!!!

It is about time the people of britain (both disabled and able-bodied middle and working class) got up, see the big picture and remove this government by any means and bring about real and radical change!!!

This is the perfect breeding ground for facism and Communism!!! :td:

---------- Post added at 10:55 ---------- Previous post was at 10:54 ----------

We have lost hundreds of billions from tax evasion!!! :mad: :td:

---------- Post added at 10:55 ---------- Previous post was at 10:55 ----------

Read this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came%E2%80%A6

Re: Benefit cuts are fuelling abuse of disabled people, say charities
 

Did you just suggest anarchy as a solution to the problems being discussed?

Ie 'remove this government by any means'

Re: Benefit cuts are fuelling abuse of disabled people, say charities
 

If he is he is going off topic..

Re: Benefit cuts are fuelling abuse of disabled people, say charities
 

I meant "via protest"

Can you comment on the rest of the post!!!

Re: Benefit cuts are fuelling abuse of disabled people, say charities
 

I see.

Yes I can. But I don't think you're interested in my opinion.

Re: Benefit cuts are fuelling abuse of disabled people, say charities
 

I am interested in yours and other CF users opinions!

Re: Benefit cuts are fuelling abuse of disabled people, say charities
 

Yes because as Yoda once said " There is much to be learned ".:D

Re: Benefit cuts are fuelling abuse of disabled people, say charities
 

It was actually "Much to be learned, there is." :)

Re: Benefit cuts are fuelling abuse of disabled people, say charities
 

" Much to learn, you still have", actually....;)

Re: Benefit cuts are fuelling abuse of disabled people, say charities
 

RizzyKing well said the hate fueled by media with consent government is hideous hate crime. Maybe police should be involved warning papers and the government to stop it.

We as nation decending into anarchy. Its full hatred did you read the replys about disabled attacked nobody did nothing in milton keynes in the reply's. That was absolutely hideous made me sick.

How someone likened it to germany 1930's persacution before the war with fueled hatred started by the then government.

I have witnessed a carer who got spat at by some **** told to get a real job. It makes you sick see these things done.

Cameron could stop it he could make statements to telll people lay off they will find the ones by correct procedures who should not be claiming.

Maybe labour did start this but cameron gone way beyond the remit of getting fraudsters he now fueling the hatred. If he thought this would not happen then he most stupid prime minister ever.

You will always get **** feel its crusade a call to arms to harras, attack verbal and physical those who been demonised by the governments.

You only got look at even tourist been attacked for being here. I witnessed it all they was visitors to the country people se foreigner/disabled instantly there thick brains engage to attack mode. I appoligised for our nation to the couple I felt disgusted. Its how found out by chatting to them they was on holiday. Just because was not in traditional holiday zone they was demonised.

Its sickens me to be british way thick people are acting it happening across the spectrum of classes. Sheep who follow the claptrap speil from papers.

Re: Benefit cuts are fuelling abuse of disabled people, say charities
 

Seeing that you are a clever clogs l will give you one extra gold star Gary.:)

Re: Benefit cuts are fuelling abuse of disabled people, say charities
 

Say something for long enough not only will some believe it but it will alter the perception of more people so that they then see the problem everywhere and so it escalates and escalates. There was a time when the british public had the brains to work things out for themselves but that day seems to be disappearing if exists at all with self interest, hatred and fear replacing those values we used to hold dear. I don't altogether blame the public we have had a media for twenty years working towards the goal of having us at each others throats and they are now succeeding and getting what they want.

I wonder how much we will lose before common sense comes back and we start to ignore those who have an agenda not ours that has never been ours.

Re: Benefit cuts are fuelling abuse of disabled people, say charities
 

You are impossible.

First of all the saying "its not affordable" is wrong, the government chooses where it spends its cash, the cuts are not because its unaffordable but rather the current government doesnt want the money spent in that way. Since they have got elected numerous expenditures of cash have been carried out including.

writing off of over 20billion worth of tax to large companies.
commiting to a high speed rail link.
offering cash for extra waste collections to councils.
freezing international aid and nhs expenditure, the international aid as it turns out is a complete joke with india mocking us saying they didnt want it.
giving tax cuts out to certian taxpayers.
giving tax cuts to businesses.

also if the government have no idea who is frauding the system (as you say) then how do YOU know? Of course they have an idea, it may not be 100% accurate but they will have an idea. The DWP figures will be the most credible as after all it is their job. The fraud figures may seem higher of course when people start thinking they doctors and can diagnose someone in the street if they a fraud or not and the government starts moving the goalposts on claims so it looks like many have been illegally claiming.

In addition to show how out of touch you are disability living allowance is not an unemployment benefit, its perfectly legal to work full time whilst claiming it.

So you someone who has no experience of the system has decided its too complicated and has excessive fraud. I think the truth is you just want your tax bill to drop.

What are you doing posting me figures that backup what I just said?

0.3% IB fraud
0.5% DLA fraud.

Thats about as close to zero as you can get and is very tolerable.

Whats funny is this 26k benefit cap will affect hardly anyone on benefits, the propoganda campaign by the bbc, the daily mail, the sun and the government led to that cap which has led to people thinking that a typical benefit claimant gets over 26k worth of benefits. Thats one thing however its a very different thing when disabled people are been mocked and threatened in the street.

Re: Benefit cuts are fuelling abuse of disabled people, say charities
 

[snip] [/snip]

So you begrudge taking the poorest out of tax altogether by raising the personal allowance?

Re: Benefit cuts are fuelling abuse of disabled people, say charities
 

I have not made an opinion on what I have listed just stating the government has shown they can spend money.

That tax cut where they raised the personal allowance I dont have a issue with for what its worth.

Re: Benefit cuts are fuelling abuse of disabled people, say charities
 

There's a good chance that a lot of people do actually think people on benefits get that much.

The lowest amount is probably around 3.5k

Re: Benefit cuts are fuelling abuse of disabled people, say charities
 

you really aren't serious are you ? .Your biggest problem is you are only thinking of yourself and as proven by the post above have no understanding of what the government have to take into consideration when working out what can be afforded .Here's a little help .
As we all know unemployment is on the rise long term disability benefit claims have gone through the roof so that will mean less tax to pay for more welfare claimants which is going to keep on rising whith tax revenue falling ,not just this year but for years to come ,you see the government have to try to work out what the system is going to cost further down the line .The only way to increase or even maintain current expenditure on welfare is to either raise taxes or divert funds from other services ,services that tax payers pay for and risk losing so we can keep on giving lazy or fraudulent claimers free money ,we have supported them long enough

again you can't be serious .That is the ridiculous thing you have said to date ,it's fraud and it's obvious that no one knows it's being done untill it's discovered ,even the government accept this .

so you think it's a simple system ,you must be the only person who thinks that .

That just proves what a selfish individual you are .I want my taxes used efficiently an not wasted on people who can work but choose not to so i don't lose services that i pay for or have to pay more of the money i work for in taxes

you may want to read the rest of the link and try to understand it :rolleyes: here's a snippet

In Lambeth, use of voice recognition software identified over 18% of claimants as benefit cheats. As shown above, the government's national figure for housing benefit fraud is £290m. At 18% this would be over £3.8bn for housing benefit fraud alone!


You have to realise that tax payers are not a inexaustible supply of money and they are getting rarer every day ,common sense tells you (or should) that the amount we are paying out is unsustainable at current levels .....unless you inhabit some fantasy world where 1+1= 3

Re: Benefit cuts are fuelling abuse of disabled people, say charities
 

We not talking about housing benefit martyh we talking about the treatment of the disabled, who yes may well also claim housing benefit but thats not the main point of discussion.

17% since 2000 is through the roof?

You dont come across as someone who is neutral.

The most credible figures state less than 1% is fraud so the cuts eat into non fraudelent claims, meaning what you said isnt credible. What you have just said to me is that you find not raising taxes and other services as more important that the welfare of the vulnerable. Thank you for confirming that. Alot more truthful than just "we cant afford it".

Re: Benefit cuts are fuelling abuse of disabled people, say charities
 

Well since you can't be bothered to read anytink that goes against your view i don't see why i should be bothered to debate with such a blinkered individual,but just so you know and this is from the link you i supplied which didn't read


The government figure for incapacity benefit fraud has leapt from £10m to £60m but it's still laughably small. One single sentencing session for single person benefit frauds in Merseyside identified frauds approaching £1m. That's just 21 claimants for one type of benefit in one authority area.
Two out of three claimants for the new employment and support allowance fail. If we cautiously assume that even one third of those on incapacity benefit should not be there, that alone represents a figure of £2.2bn.

Re: Benefit cuts are fuelling abuse of disabled people, say charities
 

I find that ridiculous. a voice recognition thing that works as a lie detector.

even standard lie detectors are a joke.

Re: Benefit cuts are fuelling abuse of disabled people, say charities
 

err no gary ,it identifies people pretending to be someone else for the purpose of claiming benefit ......it's not a lie detector:rolleyes:

Re: Benefit cuts are fuelling abuse of disabled people, say charities
 

For that to work they must have a recording of your voice? are they keeping recordings of your voice? is that legal?

Re: Benefit cuts are fuelling abuse of disabled people, say charities
 

of course it is ,and it's a very effective way of catching people who send a friend to sign on for them every fortnight or whenever while they go to work

Re: Benefit cuts are fuelling abuse of disabled people, say charities
 

Re: Benefit cuts are fuelling abuse of disabled people, say charities
 

Do they have to physically speak into a microphone? "I john Smith have come to sign on. why you can't just compare signatures like the good old days, I don't know"

Re: Benefit cuts are fuelling abuse of disabled people, say charities
 

Re: Benefit cuts are fuelling abuse of disabled people, say charities
 

Re: Benefit cuts are fuelling abuse of disabled people, say charities
 

would not be 100% sure on this 26k limit it all depends on whats included. If its absolute everything from medication to housing/poll tax(still call it that its effectively new name in old coat). Then would think disabled more to fear on the cap.

Another persacution if you like by heartless soceity. Who wants to blame them. If anything the real issue is tax CREDIT. This blossomed to help low paid get decent living standard allows firms to negate paying a proper wage. We needed to help low paid work for sure but not expense of allowing businesses to negate paying proper wage.

I bet 50% of workers are on some sort tax credit.

It was bad designed been forcing minimum wage up driving it up to £10 hour mark. Only supporting businesses who clearly would be struggling to pay it thats linking the taxman looking at the books of the company.

Therefore tax credit is used more efficient workers get better wage tax dont support big business negating paying proper wage to staff.

If anything this the real deal but will cameron take on the businesses.

Thats going off topic whats is wrong is the hatred going on. Like said feel.

Too many sheep in society who like zombies follow crusades we as nation lost its dignity.

Re: Benefit cuts are fuelling abuse of disabled people, say charities
 

Exactly. And the abuse is of those who are obviously genuine claimants (or their carers) such as those with LD & Physical Disabilities. All clear to the eye. The fraudsters are not obvious which is why they will not be targeted. :fit:

As for the 26k this will hurt very few. The real losers are single people who live in one bed flats under age 35. Or any single person in a 2 bed flat. Regardless of the fact this may be the only accommodation they can find or their particular disability precludes them from living in a shared house. :dozey:

Re: Benefit cuts are fuelling abuse of disabled people, say charities
 

It is about time we boycotted newspapers like the sun, daily mail and express and start a political campaign for radical reform of capitalism and democracy, persuade people to vote for the Greens and other far-left parties so that we can teach the political and business elite a lesson!!!

---------- Post added at 09:44 ---------- Previous post was at 09:42 ----------

The sooner the phone-hacking equiry shuts down Murdoch, Desmond and Northcliffe, the better for the UK!

Re: Benefit cuts are fuelling abuse of disabled people, say charities
 

Re: Benefit cuts are fuelling abuse of disabled people, say charities
 

The reason unemployment is up is becuase the wealthy has cut jobs in times like these, what about the real cheats like tax evaders (aka the wealthy and major businesses), they have stolen hundreds of billions from the government, cut jobs and wages, make themselfs rich at the expence of us and took control of our politcal system from us as well, target them insted!!!

Re: Benefit cuts are fuelling abuse of disabled people, say charities
 

I have noticed a change in attitude towards me with regards my problems both out and about and on here, most recently when I got my motabilty car.

Some of the public and private comments were colourful to say the least.

But yup the general attitude towards myself has got much worse and I've been told I'm a scrounged / faker so much I tend to even wonder if I should claim anything.

Re: Benefit cuts are fuelling abuse of disabled people, say charities
 

l know dilli as l have noticed the same general change in attitude by some people and l just ignore them as the are the ignorant narrow minded ones in all this.

Re: Benefit cuts are fuelling abuse of disabled people, say charities
 

It upsets me that I'm thought of like that and despite trying I can't ignore it.

Re: Benefit cuts are fuelling abuse of disabled people, say charities
 

Divide & conquer - it rarely fails if the parties involved are stupid enough not to realize what's actually going on.

Re: Benefit cuts are fuelling abuse of disabled people, say charities
 

l know some people can't but going off topic for just one post and it was when l was younger l had many racist taunts aimed at me and first of all l found it hard but after a while l developed a thick skin and just ignored them and thats what l do now with regards to peoples attitudes towards me because of my illness and disibilities.

Re: Benefit cuts are fuelling abuse of disabled people, say charities
 

Beats me why anyone would regard a registered blind man as a scrounger.I cannot understand the mind set.

Re: Benefit cuts are fuelling abuse of disabled people, say charities
 

I think with some people it's down to jealousy, resentment, or purely because the person/s are seen to be flashing the cash.

I have neighbours who are on benefits and have a mobility car. they are out shopping everyday and come back with loads of shopping. (food/furniture/electrical/etc)

they do think highly of themselves, and that kind of attitude is the kind of attitude that will and does attract the resentment.

I suppose if they were to just act poor it would take some of the attention away :)

Re: Benefit cuts are fuelling abuse of disabled people, say charities
 

Well I suspect it wouldn't matter if dilly had a full time job(which he would prefer) some would still assume he was a scrounger.:(

Re: Benefit cuts are fuelling abuse of disabled people, say charities
 

My dad said exactly the same to me on this.

My sister went on a rant about how all claimants have messed up her life making her pay high taxes etc. Then my dad simply pointed out that the current situation on welfare is nothing new, fraud has always existed for decades etc. and that he can see right through whats going on in that they getting people fighting with each other. Fraud is almost certianly lower now than decades ago as welfare has toughened up not softened up. Now my dad has in the past moaned about people on the dole etc. so it says a lot that he came out with that.

Just about noone on DLA or IB will be above 26k and only probably if they got kids.

Re: Benefit cuts are fuelling abuse of disabled people, say charities
 

I feel that the disabled are scapegoats for the weathy and major buisnesses, who have caused this mess in the first place, I hope they remember what they have done and they do the right thing next time there is an election!

Re: Benefit cuts are fuelling abuse of disabled people, say charities
 

sadly true damned if you damned if you dont.

I wish papers and sheep DLA not means tested yet the equally you can work with it.

The persacution down to government claiming welfare gone up. Well why dont they break it down show the figures. I would say tax credit biggest drain increase not say we should not but not expense allowing business not to pay fair wages.

Infact not suprised Disabled gone up your bound to see increase when medication prolongs life and more accidents happen. Many through no fault there own injured long term or become another disabled statistic. What do people who attack them want them to stop taking medication die. Those been hurt not to get support they entitled.

Worried we endanger of people crashing the safety net that many need. Then again many sheep out there who going around with there nasty atitude probably want that. However I bet they would be first to be screaming if they became disabled for support if the safety net was completely removed.

Re: Benefit cuts are fuelling abuse of disabled people, say charities
 

Not the optimal way to have a reasoned conversation with those who may not totally and fully agree with all your views by calling them "sheep", imho....

https://www.cableforum.co.uk/images/...2012/02/64.png

Re: Benefit cuts are fuelling abuse of disabled people, say charities
 

I don't subscribe to the sheep idea but what i do think is that right now people's personal finances are hurting and like everyone when they are hurting they want to lash out at someone and right now with the campaign that seems to be going on we sick and disabled are a perfect scapegoat for all that ill's ya. Difference between now and the past when disabled people were not attacked is a more hostile media and a oppurtunistic government that finds itself being handed a scapegoat on a plate and doesn't have the political fortitude to resist using it.

I would like to think people could be educated on the issue but sadly i don't think that is easily done or something that could be achieved in general terms with the general public they see us on our odd good day and judge us completely on it. We really are getting to the point where you are totally damned if you do and damned if you don't. I dearly wish writing "fit for work" on a form made it so because i would be so much happier being fit, able to work and having a job but not how life works.

Problem is more people have my attitude and would dearly love to work but cannot then are defrauding the system but as long as the media keeps highlighting the fringe cases and reporting them as the norm it simply isn't going to get any better for any claimant.

Re: Benefit cuts are fuelling abuse of disabled people, say charities
 

Tax credits without a doubt are a much bigger drain however they are given out to far more people so although they may get targeted as well they wont get the same media propoganda against them.

Classic examples.

We had martyh post HB fraud figures as a way to justify attacking the disabled when they seperate parts of welfare.
We have newspapers loving to find people with 4+ kids who will be on high amounts of child benefits and then the government sees that as an excuse to attack the disabled.
We have the bbc who seemed to just think everyone is fiddling sickness benefits and going out looking for them.

Its going to get worse before it gets better, it will bottom out when people are dieing in the streets and en masse and the government starts getting sued successfully at which point they will have realised its gone too far.

Re: Benefit cuts are fuelling abuse of disabled people, say charities
 

Re Tax Credits - the Government must have been listening to you....

BBC

Re: Benefit cuts are fuelling abuse of disabled people, say charities
 

Now your just making things up :mad: no where have i attacked the disabled or tried to justify the attacking of disabled .

Re: Benefit cuts are fuelling abuse of disabled people, say charities
 

I predicted the same.

Re: Benefit cuts are fuelling abuse of disabled people, say charities
 

I know of quite a few families who are going to suffer due to this change, mainly because they CANNOT get work much above 16 hours per week as their employers don't want full-time workers.

But then again I know of a group who make damned sure they don't work more than 16 hours in order to get maximum benefits for minimal work.

Re: Benefit cuts are fuelling abuse of disabled people, say charities
 

you have done in this very thread.

Re: Benefit cuts are fuelling abuse of disabled people, say charities
 

Show me

Re: Benefit cuts are fuelling abuse of disabled people, say charities
 

sadly just shows the backward nature of the government make families suffer. When I think it should be put on the businesses by increasing minimum wage.

Tax credit is big issue with more people becoming in poverty trap but instead moving the goalpost and only supporting families when businesses clearly cant afford the new higher minimum wage small businesses/businesses struggling financially we have system which encourages businesses to pay the bare minimum regardless profits.

Anyway this off topic should be on seperate thread discussion. Maggy will be after us.

Gary L and Chrysalis would hope the community would stand tall against this government before it comes to that. Sadly lost faith in british people to do that with what going on. I am sure some think disabled should lie in bed 24 hours staring at ceiling dribbling in the mouth.

I agreed its all down to the pay squeeze when actually we need to be doing the oposite. Get money in the right pockets so they can spend more goods bought means companies shifting goods need to make more.

Which inturn create wealth to increase jobs maybe this masterplan needs to be given as education to businesses and governments.

Re: Benefit cuts are fuelling abuse of disabled people, say charities
 

The news has hit some Czech Romas I know and they have been phoning me trying to find out what it will mean to them.

I told the first I had no idea what he was on about, the second gave me the BBC link, the third was almost crying.... he said he gets "about" £16,000 pa from WFTC and "about" £3000 Child Benefit (5 children) and a drop would mean he could not feed his family!!

What are they spending their money on? :confused:

I told the third one that the Benefits cap is the one that will hit him hardest, as Housing Benefit (his rent is £950 pm) and Community Charge Benefit are included in it (so far). I think he did actually start crying when I said the cap would be set at £26,000.

He was not well-chuffed to hear about that!

Re: Benefit cuts are fuelling abuse of disabled people, say charities
 

Advise them to check the moneysavingexpert forums. They have people who can feed a family of 4 on £200 pcm.

Re: Benefit cuts are fuelling abuse of disabled people, say charities
 

£16k just in WFTC thats more then i get a year including housing benefit and council tax benefit. You have highlighted exactly why so many taxpayers are unhappy and how the system rewards having kids. Although funnily enough i am a taxpayer too got a rebate today as apparently i paid too much income tax.

Re: Benefit cuts are fuelling abuse of disabled people, say charities
 

WFTC is the biggest problem on welfare I am in full agreement.

This unfortenatly has the blame misplaced at IB and DLA claimants. I wonder how many of those in the pub mocking the guy on crutches were in receipt of WFTC.

WFTC is paid to people who work and dont work and is both a generous child benefit and a subsidy to employers who wont pay a working wage.

What probably should happen to solve 3 issues is to scrap WFTC completely and signficantly increase the min wage.

it would do 3 things.

1 - increase the gap between unemployment employment in income levels.
2 - decrease poverty for those working including the childless who are forgotten about.
3 - decrease the welfare bill.

of course there would be a very unhappy part of society having to pay higher wages and less to owners/shareholders, businesses.

Even someone getting the absolute most on IB with DLA which would be this doesnt exceed 26k income and they are below 20k as well, they dont even come close to 26k.

Long term IB
max age additions
high rate DLA

Re: Benefit cuts are fuelling abuse of disabled people, say charities
 

can i point out that WFTC does not exist anymore and hasn't existed since 2003 .I think you need to look at the history of such benefits from when they where introduced by Thatcher up to the present day including what they replaced before continuing with your ramblings

and i'm still waiting for you to show me where i "attacked" disabled people

Re: Benefit cuts are fuelling abuse of disabled people, say charities
 

Child tax credits I was reffering to, funny tho you waited until I posted as if you now have an issue with me.

Now when I read someone say they dont have a problem with disabled people getting their help cut I consider that an attack on disabled people. Especially when they start calling them names.

Re: Benefit cuts are fuelling abuse of disabled people, say charities
 

like i said you need to source a history of tax credits all the way back to when every working person used to get married mans allowance/single mans allowance ,and a child allowance built into their tax code .That was all abolished and family credits introduced which where in turn replaced by WFTC which was a temporary measure untill WTC and CTC where introduced .So you see you can't simply abolish WTC and CTC because you would have to replace them with another tax allowance for working people .There is nothing wrong with the current system just the way it is implemented

You really need to go back and read what i posted on several occasions before throwing such accusations around ,I'll leave you to do that before you apologise

Re: Benefit cuts are fuelling abuse of disabled people, say charities
 

Well whatever name it goes by these days there is more fraud and overpayment with the tax credits system then there is with welfare but i don't see the media getting itself in the huff they do over incap nor do i see many mentions of all that tax money that isn't being paid either. Face it were the easy target unlike how the media portrays us we don't have masses of taxpayer cash lying around so that we can mount legal challenges. Fact is most of us on benefit manage to live on not that much (but enough to manage if your careful don't think i am suggesting more for us ;))and given the choice would happily work and be able to pay our own way with our own earnt cash rather then having to take benefit.

Re: Benefit cuts are fuelling abuse of disabled people, say charities
 

That may be the case Rizzy ,i am fully aware the Tax Credit system is flawed but replacing that with a new system (and that will most likely happen in time) will take much longer than getting people who are on the wrong disability benefit or shouldn't be on it in the first place.Yes you are correct in that it is easier to sort out the fraudulant /incorrect claims so the government should go there first simply because we need to save money now not in 5 yrs time

Re: Benefit cuts are fuelling abuse of disabled people, say charities
 

Well as of April 2012 no family earning £26k or more will get Tax Credits or Child Tax Credits. The letters are being received at the moment. Now whether this will include those whose total benefits (excluding child benefit) are over £26k or not will cause a whole other argument.

For me it equals about 6% of my income, as a family not so much.

Re: Benefit cuts are fuelling abuse of disabled people, say charities
 

am i right in that these changes will not take effect untill next year because tax credits are paid based on last years earnings or is it a case of any family having a combined income of £26k last tax year will not recieve any payments this year .I assume the £545 allowance for children with families who earn under £50k is still there

Re: Benefit cuts are fuelling abuse of disabled people, say charities
 

Nope they end as of April 2012. I have the letter from the tax man. :fit:

Re: Benefit cuts are fuelling abuse of disabled people, say charities
 

Year's ago I was diagnosed with a mental illness, caused by drug's. But I'm considerably lucky now that I earn the amount I do.

Re: Benefit cuts are fuelling abuse of disabled people, say charities
 

Marty the trouble is with what the government is doing to longterm disabled only cuts fraud in headlines not by a sizeable amount in reality. For quite a while now you couldn't be officially longterm disabled without providing supporting medical evidence i know because i have supplied it in some cases and agreed on them contacting whoever they needed although asking i think was more politeness as i am sure they can request it whether i agree or not.

Most benefit fraud now is on shortterm usually in six month increments i know because more then one person has detailed how they do it on some of the medical forums i go on (keep upto date on new treatments, developments for my condition). None of the reforms that are doing real damage to longterm sick are catching that group or impacting them in the slightest thats where my anger comes from they are lying to the public knowing damn well it isn't about fraud it's cost cutting at whatever cost.

I do and always have said there needs to be reform of the welfare system my past posts on this forum will show that. They have to be meaningful practical reforms that address all needs for the short, medium and longterm. What is being done right now by this government with a lot of mistruth in your name is none of that.

Re: Benefit cuts are fuelling abuse of disabled people, say charities
 

Ok so there is no misunderstanding.

You see nothing wrong with the current level of tax credits paid out for children but you think disabled related benefits need cutting?

Re: Benefit cuts are fuelling abuse of disabled people, say charities
 

Until the Government comes up with a lot of decent well paid jobs, they will fail!

---------- Post added at 10:39 ---------- Previous post was at 10:38 ----------

What about the Tax Evaders? they have stolen HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS!!! :mad: :td:

---------- Post added at 10:41 ---------- Previous post was at 10:39 ----------

The victims of this better vote for the Far-Left after this!

Re: Benefit cuts are fuelling abuse of disabled people, say charities
 

And if they don't?

Re: Benefit cuts are fuelling abuse of disabled people, say charities
 

So people should vote for the communist party of Great Britain?

Re: Benefit cuts are fuelling abuse of disabled people, say charities
 

you make very good points all departments should talk to each other. I also think one form should be enough. Blackpool DLA should be completely link with local benefits office council should be linked to stop the housing fraud.

Surely if the government system interlinked we would see less fraud.

Its left to individuals to inform departments think it should be automatic. To claim dsibility you fill two forms one for DLA one for benefits surely on survices most questions are exactly the same. Streamline the system is needed not major heart surgery which we seeing.

I dont disagree with the support - work disabled thinking of ESA. idea thats not bad those who able to work should be able to get help. Those who cant work should get the required help they need. Its hard for disabled to find jobs they need a help to fight there corner. I would also like to see disabled companies setup who soley employ disabled free of regulation and possible financially support. Those who work group should not lose entitlements just because disabilty wont restrict as such. It also should be flexible say someone in support feels capable should be able to use a contact to sort it out and vice versa. I also think work from home system for disabled could be introduced. The cynic in me ESA been introduced to circumvent the lifetime contracts of genuine disabled. Fear goalpost move so bad to literally make it impossible for disabled to get the support needed.

However dont like the way government dealing with ESA system. I dont think there atitude of nobody on benefits for life is right. It gives out signals of certain disabled not got illnesses they wont recover. There is people who will be ill for there lifetime so therefore should get lifetime support. Some born with it some who fell ill later or accident caused it. I would say 100% that disabled would swap there lifestyle for others. Medical breakthroughs have come on but not all illnesses will be wiped out just yet. way you hear people miracle cures are there some medications are available but governments often wont support them due to costs to NHS. So some look at charities to try get medication which either cures or eases it.

media and those who like to think disabled are scroungers. The hate then becomes from that. Sadly reality is many who have been thrown off still disabled but goalpost moved. I certainly dont like the all glocves fit all approach to tackling it.

Disabled should get the help they need problem lies every thing not black and white but people want it so.