Re: Drought summit as rivers in England dry up
 

.....and again, which is why I have not said I agree with England (or whoever) paying for it ;)

Re: Drought summit as rivers in England dry up
 

Plenty of villages have been lost to reservoirs in England. Not sure if any of them have been used to supply Wales though...

Re: Drought summit as rivers in England dry up
 

None have - and my point is it's extremely unlikely to ever happen.

Re: Drought summit as rivers in England dry up
 

Actually you did - you said "England" should pay the processing costs. And I pointed out that the WA administration could not find any lawful way of imposing any charge - even an at-cost charge - on the basis that the water was crossing a national border within the UK.

"England" could not be made to pay anything to Wales. The only payments that would need to be made would be between the company operating the reservoir and the consumers drinking the water. Whether the company or the consumers were English or Welsh would be entirely irrelevant.

The whole reason the debate was framed in these terms on the radio this lunchtime was of course because the Plaidos have an interest in creating an impression of difference between England and Wales. But outside of nationalist fantasy politics there is simply no legal framework that would allow any such arrangement to develop.

---------- Post added at 20:54 ---------- Previous post was at 20:52 ----------

The point is entirely moot. The rainfall and the topography to capture and store it is located in Wales, and the large population centres are located in England.

Re: Drought summit as rivers in England dry up
 

I think you're missing the point - using an extreme example, let's say WW didn't refuse the water (not that they could of course) but did not offer any help with the transportation. They did not deny access to the water but did not participate in getting the water to England. Would it not then be the English water authorities receiving the water who would be paying for the transportation?

I stress again that's an extreme but the point I'm making is a company which does not serve England (or any other location) should not have to pay for the processing and transportation. I'm not saying they should profit from it, just that their costs should be met. I'd expect the same in return if it was the other way around.

That's Plaid Cymru for you, although the discussion was set up by the England-based Radio 2 ;)

Adjusted that for you ;)

Not all Wales has oversupplies of water - some of the country is also prone to drought. But I can't ever see any villages in England flooded to dealt with it.

Re: Drought summit as rivers in England dry up
 

No, it would be private companies, some (but not all) of which are in English ownership. Water and sewage services were privatised in England and Wales a long time ago and in England they remain in the hands of PLCs.

The point I'm making is, drawing 'English' and 'Welsh' into the debate in any sense whatsoever is just not relevant. For the purposes of supplying water, there is no border. There are simply different companies serving different areas. Welsh Water serves most of Wales and also some of England (around Gloucester and Hereford for example). An English company, Severn-Trent, serves areas of Wales in the Severn catchment.

If water is exchanged between any two companies, then of course that is a commercial operation and the buyer will pay the seller. That goes without saying. But for Plaid Cymru to call for England to pay Wales, simply because the water is crossing the border, is to propose an entirely different layer of costs onto the situation.

Nobody is asking for charity. One company sells, another buys and that's the end of it. The border between England and Wales is not relevant.

I'm not sure who it was that chose to frame the question that way on R2 this lunchtime, but listening to Elfyn Llwyd it was quite apparent he agreed with the proposition. Either he made it, or he wishes he had. :D

Probably because wherever in Wales has a drought, there is a more easily exploited source of water somewhere else in Wales that would be first in line for a reservoir. I don't believe there's anywhere within practical distance in England that might qualify for a scheme on the scale of Capel Celyn.

And on the subject of Capel Celyn, let's put to bed the tawdry nationalist myth that the reservoir was built there because it was in Wales and its inhabitants were therefore somehow less important.

It was built where it was because it was in the right place in relation to the city that needed the water and because official attitudes towards projects of this sort were rather different back then. Things have changed a lot for the better and it's highly unlikely such a thing would be proposed in the here and now, regardless of whether or not the water was proposed to be piped over the border.

Re: Drought summit as rivers in England dry up
 

I bet my neighbours will still water their gardens at night:rolleyes:

Re: Drought summit as rivers in England dry up
 

With scrap metal prices the way they're going, they'll be gone in a flash lol