Drought summit as rivers in England dry up
 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-17091256

We never seem to learn any lessons on dealing with dry weather and planning ahead.

Re: Drought summit as rivers in England dry up
 

It's not a problem. just put our bills up. that fixes every problem.
it even boosts profits.

Re: Drought summit as rivers in England dry up
 

Can't see how that helps those in poverty?

Re: Drought summit as rivers in England dry up
 

And our bills are the dearest in the country down here Gary so perhaps you can dig into your pocket a bit more to pay for it.

Re: Drought summit as rivers in England dry up
 

A dry Olympics might be fun... all those extra bods in and around London, drinking, washing and flushing toilets... or not....

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I didn't say I was prepared to pay more. I was just saying that increasing prices usually fixes everything in this country.

I don't know how far we've got with fixing global warming since, maybe they've fixed it and forgot to tell us.

Re: Drought summit as rivers in England dry up
 

not suprising due to lack rainfall but why oh why did they let all that snow melt back to the rivers.

Why do our gutters waste rainfall why not go to storage tanks for collection to replenish resevoirs.

It makes no sense how backward this country is on water management. Resevoirs often in stupid dry locations net result is it evoporates and dries out.

There not collection buts in afluent rainy areas which then could pipe water to top up resevoirs.

Sure the Eco system in this country needs bringing into 21st century yes it will cost but all we do is fudge.

Re: Drought summit as rivers in England dry up
 

Paying more for our water will not solve the problem in the short term - It will only make the share holders more profit. We should have a national grid for water, e.g. pipe it down from the North or Scotland, more underground aquifiers are required in the chalk downs of Sussex.

I live in the north part of Kent and I am supplied by Southeast water which has the majority of its water underground.

I have noticed that most of our streams volume goes into the rivers which in turn goes into the sea. What a waste.... I believe that all the South-east is to be water metered by the end of 2014. Then watch the price go up and up and up just like the Gas and Electricity companies do!!!

Re: Drought summit as rivers in England dry up
 

Not forgetting the watersports events...could be difficult rowing a boat on a dry river bed :D

Re: Drought summit as rivers in England dry up
 

:tu:

Re: Drought summit as rivers in England dry up
 

We are planning ahead, soon as the oil wars finish we'll start the water wars and the best lesson we can learn is fixing the old pipes when they spring a leak, wonder how many billions of gallons we loose each year?

Re: Drought summit as rivers in England dry up
 

I cannot understand although very expensive why a national water grid cannot be built its been talked about on and off for years.:confused:

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wa...1466-30370853/

Re: Drought summit as rivers in England dry up
 

They're talking about this on Radio 2 right now, saying that water from Wales ought to be sent to the drought areas in England. The English callers who are in favour of the idea are saying there are no regions in the UK, instead we are a 'united country'. Funny they should have that view now that England needs something from us.

It's not such a bad idea really providing you lot pay for it, our free prescriptions need to be funded somehow ;)

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Free perscriptions for water not a bad deal IMO.:D

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I thought most of the water in the Brecon Hills reservoirs was used by the Midlands anyway?:confused:

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If we utilize the canal systems we could divert water from these to a new reservoir!

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Some of it is. But apparently we are 147% overstocked for water :erm:

Re: Drought summit as rivers in England dry up
 

Ah well that's Wales for you..Normally after our Easter visit the rain follows us home.It didn't last Easter.In fact it was the best Easter we have ever had weather wise.

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Welsh water.... sheep wee in it ;)

Re: Drought summit as rivers in England dry up
 

i listened to this on the Jeremy vine show -and my thoughts about the welsh guests where what a charming bunch they are. they sounded like the neighbours from hell ,they where more interested in making a profit than helping their neighbours :(

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The guy was a Plaid Cymru MP so it's his job to put Wales' interests first. I agree he didn't across very well but his point was valid in that England isn't usually intetested in the other home nations unless they want something. It seems the English felt they have an automatic right to the water when it is processed by Welsh Water, a company which does not serve England. At the very least WW should have its expenses covered.

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Wasn't it down to their accent? they usually sound like they're aggressive when they speak. same with the Irish, they sound like they're in a mood. and the Scousers sound like they're just whining.

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Obviously water that has already been processed at someone else's expense should be paid for, but I'm not sure that was the idea. There would be little point pumping purified water over great distances. You would pump 'raw' water between reservoirs and purify it before putting it into the distribution network in the town where it is to be consumed.

I don't buy the idea that England only thinks of the home nations whenever it 'wants something'. I listened to the Vine show as well and I heard the Plaido (Elfyn Llwyd, was it? I was under the kitchen floor so didn't catch all of it) offering up the same small-minded parochial guff we get on our own local telly and radio from the SNP. We are a United Kingdom. We distribute our resources when and where required. Wales is a net beneficiary of taxes collected in the UK, and the south east of England is a net contributor. Nobody has yet suggested that Wales should get less because it contributes less. It is part of the UK. It deserves the same as everyone else. And if parts of this island have more water than is needed, the people who happen to live where the water is have absolutely no right whatsoever to demand payment for that resource, except as would be part of the usual planning and development process.

Re: Drought summit as rivers in England dry up
 

Can you imagine the fuss which would ensue if £billions were spent on a water grid and then it started raining again and we discovered we didn't actually need it after all? IMHO it's largely due to the fickle nature of the pubic who demand infrastructure when it snows, rains or doesn't rain but don't want to pay for it through their taxes or prices. It was only a few years ago that we were being flooded left right and centre and people were demanding vast sums of money be spent on flood defences. The truth is these projects take many years and our climate seems to be increasingly unstable so it's going to take a brave man/woman to tell us all we're going to have to pay more in tax or whatever in order to pay for a grand scheme which may turn out to be unnecessary for the foreseeable future..

Re: Drought summit as rivers in England dry up
 

Amusing from someone from Brum... :D

Re: Drought summit as rivers in England dry up
 

Excellent post. :tu:

Some people have a very selective memory when it comes to issues such as these. "The English are only interested when it suits them.. blah, blah, blah..." nonsense. All the rain in Wales, Scotland and N. Ireland wouldn't repay the English taxpayer for their contribution to bailing out Salmond's arc of prosperity. That's what the UK should be about, not petty cross border point scoring.

---------- Post added at 20:00 ---------- Previous post was at 19:55 ----------

How did you deduce that? Does he type with an accent? :D

Re: Drought summit as rivers in England dry up
 

Having been born in 1960 i can well remember the drought in 1976 and since water is a very basic fact of human life ie without it we could not exist convincing people of the benefits of a national water grid i would have thought to be much easier then convincing people of a national power grid.

The climate has been very erratic as you have eluded to, some parts of the country have been flooded and some have not enough water a national water grid whilst not solving all the problems would go some way to addressing some in my view.

But i agree with you on the fickle nature of public opinion.

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Me too. We used to play footy outside in the cul-de-sac and it was so hot the tarmac/asphalt pavement and road surfaces started to melt. We also had a beautiful Virginia creeper which had covered the front/side of the house for 30 odd years but that died in 1976.

My personal view is that we should plan, build and spend for the future when it comes to water, energy, flood defences etc. but it didn't happen when Brown was spending money like it was going out of fashion and I can't see it happening now the finances are really stretched.

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This is why I didn't say I agreed with England paying for the water. I understand and respect why Llwyd thought we should be paid for it as it's his job to promote our interests. But I certainly think the processing costs etc should be covered by England. If Welsh Water made no profit from the venture then I say that's fair. There certainly is a tangible amount of England only being interested in its own affairs until it wants something from us in this but that would be taking this too OT.

One thing is for sure, a case like Capel Celyn is unlikely to ever happen in reverse.

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That wouldn't be England paying Wales for something though. It would be the consumers of the water paying whichever company built and operated the reservoir and the pipeline. Llwyd seems mightily un-keen for Welsh Water to have anything to do with such a project, so it would probably be a private company, probably headquartered in England.

The only sense in which England could pay Wales would be if the Assembly were to be able to charge some sort of tax or levy for transferring water across the national border in a way that is not charged for transferring water across a local authority border, say between Monmouth and Newport, or if it were to impose a levy on any non-Welsh company that attempted to develop a reservoir in Wales. Both approaches would be legally dubious in the extreme.

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.....and again, which is why I have not said I agree with England (or whoever) paying for it ;)

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Plenty of villages have been lost to reservoirs in England. Not sure if any of them have been used to supply Wales though...

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None have - and my point is it's extremely unlikely to ever happen.

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Actually you did - you said "England" should pay the processing costs. And I pointed out that the WA administration could not find any lawful way of imposing any charge - even an at-cost charge - on the basis that the water was crossing a national border within the UK.

"England" could not be made to pay anything to Wales. The only payments that would need to be made would be between the company operating the reservoir and the consumers drinking the water. Whether the company or the consumers were English or Welsh would be entirely irrelevant.

The whole reason the debate was framed in these terms on the radio this lunchtime was of course because the Plaidos have an interest in creating an impression of difference between England and Wales. But outside of nationalist fantasy politics there is simply no legal framework that would allow any such arrangement to develop.

---------- Post added at 20:54 ---------- Previous post was at 20:52 ----------

The point is entirely moot. The rainfall and the topography to capture and store it is located in Wales, and the large population centres are located in England.

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I think you're missing the point - using an extreme example, let's say WW didn't refuse the water (not that they could of course) but did not offer any help with the transportation. They did not deny access to the water but did not participate in getting the water to England. Would it not then be the English water authorities receiving the water who would be paying for the transportation?

I stress again that's an extreme but the point I'm making is a company which does not serve England (or any other location) should not have to pay for the processing and transportation. I'm not saying they should profit from it, just that their costs should be met. I'd expect the same in return if it was the other way around.

That's Plaid Cymru for you, although the discussion was set up by the England-based Radio 2 ;)

Adjusted that for you ;)

Not all Wales has oversupplies of water - some of the country is also prone to drought. But I can't ever see any villages in England flooded to dealt with it.

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No, it would be private companies, some (but not all) of which are in English ownership. Water and sewage services were privatised in England and Wales a long time ago and in England they remain in the hands of PLCs.

The point I'm making is, drawing 'English' and 'Welsh' into the debate in any sense whatsoever is just not relevant. For the purposes of supplying water, there is no border. There are simply different companies serving different areas. Welsh Water serves most of Wales and also some of England (around Gloucester and Hereford for example). An English company, Severn-Trent, serves areas of Wales in the Severn catchment.

If water is exchanged between any two companies, then of course that is a commercial operation and the buyer will pay the seller. That goes without saying. But for Plaid Cymru to call for England to pay Wales, simply because the water is crossing the border, is to propose an entirely different layer of costs onto the situation.

Nobody is asking for charity. One company sells, another buys and that's the end of it. The border between England and Wales is not relevant.

I'm not sure who it was that chose to frame the question that way on R2 this lunchtime, but listening to Elfyn Llwyd it was quite apparent he agreed with the proposition. Either he made it, or he wishes he had. :D

Probably because wherever in Wales has a drought, there is a more easily exploited source of water somewhere else in Wales that would be first in line for a reservoir. I don't believe there's anywhere within practical distance in England that might qualify for a scheme on the scale of Capel Celyn.

And on the subject of Capel Celyn, let's put to bed the tawdry nationalist myth that the reservoir was built there because it was in Wales and its inhabitants were therefore somehow less important.

It was built where it was because it was in the right place in relation to the city that needed the water and because official attitudes towards projects of this sort were rather different back then. Things have changed a lot for the better and it's highly unlikely such a thing would be proposed in the here and now, regardless of whether or not the water was proposed to be piped over the border.

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I bet my neighbours will still water their gardens at night:rolleyes:

Re: Drought summit as rivers in England dry up
 

With scrap metal prices the way they're going, they'll be gone in a flash lol