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2nd hand tivo boxes
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Old 05-05-2012, 20:57   #1
nathstevenson
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2nd hand tivo boxes

Hi

I have 2 TiVo boxes in my flat and I recently bought a second hand box on a whim assuming that as I pay the TiVo charge I should be able to plug it in and make it work

When I connected the box with the card supplied I got a message telling me to contact virgin to activate my box and presumably get charged extra.

I factory reset the box and put in a card from one of my other TiVo boxes, this time when it started up it spent some time trying to connect to the virgin media network but said the cable was unplugged but it had the co-ax cable plugged in (the same cable connected to one of my boxes)

Has anyone had any experience with 2nd hand tivo boxes who could advise me? I plan to play about with it some more tomorrow
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Old 05-05-2012, 21:03   #2
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Re: 2nd hand tivo boxes

It wont work. The box has to be supplied to you directly by virgin media, attached to your account and paired with the card aswell.
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Old 05-05-2012, 21:03   #3
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Re: 2nd hand tivo boxes

Quote:
Originally Posted by nathstevenson View Post
Hi

I have 2 TiVo boxes in my flat and I recently bought a second hand box on a whim assuming that as I pay the TiVo charge I should be able to plug it in and make it work

When I connected the box with the card supplied I got a message telling me to contact virgin to activate my box and presumably get charged extra.

I factory reset the box and put in a card from one of my other TiVo boxes, this time when it started up it spent some time trying to connect to the virgin media network but said the cable was unplugged but it had the co-ax cable plugged in (the same cable connected to one of my boxes)

Has anyone had any experience with 2nd hand tivo boxes who could advise me? I plan to play about with it some more tomorrow
Its simple, VM have never sold there tivo boxes to anyone and therefor that box could be classed as stolen. They will not reconnect it without a paid for subscription
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Old 05-05-2012, 21:05   #4
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Re: 2nd hand tivo boxes

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Originally Posted by nathstevenson View Post
Has anyone had any experience with 2nd hand tivo boxes who could advise me? I plan to play about with it some more tomorrow
In a nutshell it won't work , the STB's are the property of VM and nobody should be selling them , with VM you rent the box unlike Sky were it becomes your property. As VM rent you the box they also offer free repairs to it unlike Sky were after 12 months it's out of warranty.
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Old 06-05-2012, 08:28   #5
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Re: 2nd hand tivo boxes

If you buy or receive a second hand TIVO from Ebay or elsewhere then you will be receiving stolen goods, because at all times the box remains the property of Virginmedia, also the TIVO will not work as it cannot be added to your account, and its only use would be as an expensive paperweight.

The same applies to any 3rd party set top box you purchase regardless of make or model it will never be allowed on the Virginmedia network.

Call Virgin and get a box from them that you know will work.
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Old 06-05-2012, 12:54   #6
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Re: 2nd hand tivo boxes

Don't panic, the key part of the legislation is "knowingly" receives stolen goods, and you clearly weren't aware that this TiVo was stolen. I could go further and explain that this TiVo isn't actually "stolen" as far as the law is concerned, but I've posted that elsewhere and it's not relevant here. The point being that you haven't committed a crime, but you have lost your money and the right thing for you to do now is report the whole thing to Virgin.

---------- Post added at 12:54 ---------- Previous post was at 12:52 ----------

Slight correction-"knowing or believing" it to be stolen.
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Old 06-05-2012, 12:56   #7
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Re: 2nd hand tivo boxes

Quote:
Originally Posted by andy_m View Post
Don't panic, the key part of the legislation is "knowingly" receives stolen goods, and you clearly weren't aware that this TiVo was stolen. I could go further and explain that this TiVo isn't actually "stolen" as far as the law is concerned, but I've posted that elsewhere and it's not relevant here. The point being that you haven't committed a crime, but you have lost your money and the right thing for you to do now is report the whole thing to Virgin.

---------- Post added at 12:54 ---------- Previous post was at 12:52 ----------

Slight correction-"knowing or believing" it to be stolen.
Just to defend my post about stolen settops

My point is highlighted below

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sirius View Post
Its simple, VM have never sold there tivo boxes to anyone and therefor that box could be classed as stolen. They will not reconnect it without a paid for subscription
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Old 06-05-2012, 13:08   #8
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Re: 2nd hand tivo boxes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sirius View Post
Just to defend my post about stolen settops

My point is highlighted below
I was more arguing Peter's suggestion that the OP has "received stolen goods", because he hasn't, rather than your suggestion that a 2nd hand TiVo "could" be stolen, which is actually correct, although only in a certain set of circumstances. Actually stealing a TiVo, ie. from a van, would be one, or signing a contract with Virgin with the sole intention at the outset of appropriating a TiVo just to sell it on for profit would be another. I actually can't think of any others.
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Old 06-05-2012, 15:02   #9
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Re: 2nd hand tivo boxes

I hope you enjoy your expensive door stops
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Old 06-05-2012, 15:15   #10
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Re: 2nd hand tivo boxes

Quote:
Originally Posted by andy_m View Post
I was more arguing Peter's suggestion that the OP has "received stolen goods", because he hasn't, rather than your suggestion that a 2nd hand TiVo "could" be stolen, which is actually correct, although only in a certain set of circumstances. Actually stealing a TiVo, ie. from a van, would be one, or signing a contract with Virgin with the sole intention at the outset of appropriating a TiVo just to sell it on for profit would be another. I actually can't think of any others.
Stolen from a house in a burglary
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Old 06-05-2012, 17:29   #11
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Re: 2nd hand tivo boxes

Quote:
Originally Posted by andy_m View Post
Don't panic, the key part of the legislation is "knowingly" receives stolen goods, and you clearly weren't aware that this TiVo was stolen.
Given that VM only ever rent their boxes and always retain full ownership, then it can only have been stolen property.

Quote:
I could go further and explain that this TiVo isn't actually "stolen" as far as the law is concerned, but I've posted that elsewhere and it's not relevant here.
It's VM's property. How is it not stolen?
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Old 06-05-2012, 17:58   #12
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Re: 2nd hand tivo boxes

To steal something, and for it to therefore become "stolen", you have to "dishonestly appropriate property belonging to another, with the intention of permanently depriving the other of it". This is the definition of theft, as per the Theft Act 1968.

What this means is that, if when you take something from somebody else you have already decided that you're not giving it back and are going to do with it what you like, then you are committing theft. However, it also means that, if it was your intention at the time you acquired the goods to use them in the correct manner, and only became your intention later to do with them what you like, then you haven't committed theft and the box cannot be considered "stolen".

So, with regard to Virgin STB's, if you sign a contract with them in order to get a TiVo with the sole intention of sticking it on ebay, then you steal it. If, however, you sign a contract with Virgin to get a TiVo which you intend to use in the proper way, but at a later date decide to stick it on ebay, then you don't steal it because at the time you appropriated the box you did so honestly, and you didn't have the intention to permanently deprive Virgin of it - you only formed this later. You will probably open yourself up to a civil claim from Virgin for the cost of the box and breach of contract, but you haven't committed the criminal offence of theft, and the box, therefore, is not "stolen property" as defined by the Theft Act.

Let's be honest, looking at VM TiVo's on ebay, they're going for less than £20. Nobody is going to commit to a 12 or 18 month contract with VM and pay the monthly subs involved in the advance hope of realising less than £20 minus paypal charges - these are in the main boxes that people have failed to send back after their contract has finished.

With regard to Peter's suggestion that the OP was "receiving stolen goods", I assume he is referring to the actual offence of handling stolen goods, again defined in the Theft Act. This lists several possible different ways of committing this offence, but for our purposes its enough to say that the offence is committed where a person, knowing or believing them to be stolen, accepts stolen goods or assists in disposing of them. That's a simplified version of a quite complicated offence, but I think it's quite clear that the OP cannot have committed this offence, for two reasons:

1. I think his post makes it obvious that he wasn't aware that you couldn't buy 2nd hand TiVo's - anybody who had done ANY research into the matter would know it wouldn't work and the reason why. He can't be accused that he "knew or believed" that a 2nd hand TiVo would be stolen.

2. For the reasons outlined above, the TiVo isn't stolen anyway.
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Old 06-05-2012, 18:24   #13
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Re: 2nd hand tivo boxes

Interesting. Thanks for taking the time to post that. However, if that really is the case then, as they say, the law really is an ass. How stupid

(Tried to +rep you but couldn't )
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Old 06-05-2012, 18:38   #14
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Re: 2nd hand tivo boxes

But at the end of the contract, Virgin would have communicated that the box should be returned (or be disposed of in an "environmentally friendly way") either over the phone or by note/letter.

If the ex-customer then decides to put it on e-bay (after Virgin didn't collect it) isn't that at least fraudulent selling?
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Old 06-05-2012, 18:52   #15
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Re: 2nd hand tivo boxes

If the customer knows that they don't own the box when they put it up for sale on ebay then yes, you can make a case for fraud. That would be a crime committed against the person buying it on ebay, not against Virgin.

I would suggest that most people don't read the small print and don't realise that they don't own the box. This puts them in breach of contract with Virgin, but it doesn't make them criminals-and the same is true of the op, a fool easily parted with his money he might be, but he's not a criminal engaged in handling stoleng goods.
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