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Lower pay for NHS staff in poorer areas
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Old 22-04-2012, 19:00   #1
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Lower pay for NHS staff in poorer areas

The Health Secretary Andrew Lansley backs lower pay for NHS staff in poorer areas

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The health secretary Andrew Lansley, is threatening another controversial revolution in the NHS by proposing that its staff be paid less if they work in poorer parts of the country.
The cabinet minister is backing a plan for regional pay, which would mean that nurses, midwives, hospital porters, cleaners and paramedics would earn less if they work in the north or the Midlands rather than in the south of England. Official documents reveal that the only exemption backed by the Department of Health would be for highly paid managers working in new bodies established to deliver Lansley's controversial NHS reform programme, widely criticised as a privatisation of the health service.
Is this government hoping to cause strike action with such an outlandish scheme as the above as that is the only outcome I can see if they go ahead with this stupid idea of a new North/ South divide.
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Old 22-04-2012, 19:08   #2
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Re: Lower pay for NHS staff in poorer areas

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/20...ed-public.html

already got a thread mate



edit ,just noticed it has been locked
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Old 22-04-2012, 19:10   #3
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Re: Lower pay for NHS staff in poorer areas

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Originally Posted by martyh View Post
Probably be closed or merged but this is specific about Andrew Lansley backing the wages reform.
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Old 22-04-2012, 19:24   #4
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Re: Lower pay for NHS staff in poorer areas

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Originally Posted by Peter_ View Post
Probably be closed or merged but this is specific about Andrew Lansley backing the wages reform.
should be ok as long as AF doesn't start spouting his rubbish in it .


Personally i think it will create all sorts of problems ,as you say it will reinforce the north south divide that's already there .It will lead to staff shortages in northern hospitals .It's unfair to pay different rates for the same job and don't the london workers already get a "london allowance".If the government want the poorer half of the country to get better off then this is the wrong way to do so
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Old 22-04-2012, 19:35   #5
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Re: Lower pay for NHS staff in poorer areas

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Originally Posted by martyh View Post
should be ok as long as AF doesn't start spouting his rubbish in it .


Personally i think it will create all sorts of problems ,as you say it will reinforce the north south divide that's already there .It will lead to staff shortages in northern hospitals .It's unfair to pay different rates for the same job and don't the london workers already get a "london allowance".If the government want the poorer half of the country to get better off then this is the wrong way to do so
It is called London Weighting this will cause staff to go to other NHS Trusts offering better wages which will enable those Triusts to cherry pick the best staff.
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Old 22-04-2012, 19:50   #6
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Re: Lower pay for NHS staff in poorer areas

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Originally Posted by Peter_ View Post
It is called London Weighting this will cause staff to go to other NHS Trusts offering better wages which will enable those Triusts to cherry pick the best staff.
Leaving northeners with poorer paid staff and poorer health care and as per the overall policy this would also apply to teachers and police
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Old 22-04-2012, 19:58   #7
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Re: Lower pay for NHS staff in poorer areas

Sorry to gate-crash your love-in gents, but you seem to have rather missed the point of regional differences in wages.

People in the southeast do not have 'better wages' than people in the northeast, or northwest. They have wages that reflect the higher - in some cases absurdly higher - llving costs associated with London and its hinterland.*

At present an NHS worker earning the same money in Newcastle as someone doing an identical job in Watford is, in real terms, significantly better off. I see no reason why, as a taxpayer, I should pay to maintain out-moded, left-wing ideas about uniform nationwide terms and conditions which run entirely counter to economic reality.

* I have lived and worked in northwest and southeast England and in central Scotland and I can assure you in terms of what it costs to live in each of those areas, the southeast would bring tears to your eyes.
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Old 22-04-2012, 20:15   #8
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Re: Lower pay for NHS staff in poorer areas

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Originally Posted by Chris View Post
Sorry to gate-crash your love-in gents, but you seem to have rather missed the point of regional differences in wages.

People in the southeast do not have 'better wages' than people in the northeast, or northwest. They have wages that reflect the higher - in some cases absurdly higher - llving costs associated with London and its hinterland.*

At present an NHS worker earning the same money in Newcastle as someone doing an identical job in Watford is, in real terms, significantly better off. I see no reason why, as a taxpayer, I should pay to maintain out-moded, left-wing ideas about uniform nationwide terms and conditions which run entirely counter to economic reality.

* I have lived and worked in northwest and southeast England and in central Scotland and I can assure you in terms of what it costs to live in each of those areas, the southeast would bring tears to your eyes.
All that will happen is the wage to reflect the lower cost of living in the north will be set lower restricting growth in the north and as i already said it will exacerbate the already existing north south divide .How about the wages stay the same in the north and increase in the south .The economy needs people to have some disposable income and taking that away from northerners is the wrong thing to do.
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Old 22-04-2012, 20:50   #9
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Re: Lower pay for NHS staff in poorer areas

I don't think Andrew Lansley's thoughts have anything to do with cost-of-living. I think its to do with keeping posh people in the south to spend all of their disposable income there. And saving money in the NHS on wages/pensions payments etc

Chris: Don't you think a Paramedic/Nurse in Newcastle deserves the same pay as somewhere like Hertfordshire? (I specifically didn't mention London) They do the same job...deal with very ill/dying people?

Perhaps what would work better in your "if its cheaper to live you should get paid less" thought, would be to add a broader "southern weighting" to the south of england on top of the standard pay bands.
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Old 22-04-2012, 21:16   #10
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Re: Lower pay for NHS staff in poorer areas

But it's not just about pay, is it? It's also about how much it costs to live somewhere.

If all trades/professions are paid the same, no matter where they are geographically, doesn't that disadvantage those living in the South-East (not just London, but Berkshire, Hertfordshire, Buckinghamshire, Kent, Sussex, Essex, Hampshire, et al), as they will have less disposable income after they have paid their higher costs (such as housing, transport, etc)?

For instance, I took a fairly large cut in salary when I moved up North, but I balanced that out with a lower cost of living, so it evened out in the end - there was no way I could get the same salary in Leeds that I could in the South-East/London.
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Old 22-04-2012, 21:37   #11
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Re: Lower pay for NHS staff in poorer areas

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Originally Posted by Hugh View Post
But it's not just about pay, is it? It's also about how much it costs to live somewhere.

If all trades/professions are paid the same, no matter where they are geographically, doesn't that disadvantage those living in the South-East (not just London, but Berkshire, Hertfordshire, Buckinghamshire, Kent, Sussex, Essex, Hampshire, et al), as they will have less disposable income after they have paid their higher costs (such as housing, transport, etc)?

For instance, I took a fairly large cut in salary when I moved up North, but I balanced that out with a lower cost of living, so it evened out in the end - there was no way I could get the same salary in Leeds that I could in the South-East/London.

Maybe the government should examine why a tin of beans ,a litre of fuel or houses costs more down south for no apparent reason other than the location
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Old 22-04-2012, 21:49   #12
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Re: Lower pay for NHS staff in poorer areas

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Originally Posted by haydnwalker View Post
Chris: Don't you think a Paramedic/Nurse in Newcastle deserves the same pay as somewhere like Hertfordshire? (I specifically didn't mention London) They do the same job...deal with very ill/dying people?.
I think the question is deliberately two-dimensional and substitutes an honest appraisal of hard economic fact with an appeal to emotion.

Medical professionals don't have a monopoly on difficult jobs and I'm afraid I don't think they have a right to an exemption from the same basic rules of a market economy that govern the rest of us. The current situation is an anachronism, an overhang from the days when over-mighty trade unions used socialist dogma to override basic economics. National pay bargaining is as daft as State-controlled bread prices.

---------- Post added at 21:49 ---------- Previous post was at 21:41 ----------

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Originally Posted by martyh View Post
All that will happen is the wage to reflect the lower cost of living in the north will be set lower restricting growth in the north and as i already said it will exacerbate the already existing north south divide .How about the wages stay the same in the north and increase in the south .The economy needs people to have some disposable income and taking that away from northerners is the wrong thing to do.
I think the more pressing problem is that there should be any region of the UK where State employment levels are high enough that State pay levels would 'restrict growth'.

The fact is, employers in these areas already face wage pressures because the State is artificially inflating levels thanks to national pay. The idea that wages in the south should be lifted, rather than lowered in the north, is insane. Where do you propose we find the money to pay for that?
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Old 22-04-2012, 22:02   #13
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Re: Lower pay for NHS staff in poorer areas

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Originally Posted by Chris View Post
I think the more pressing problem is that there should be any region of the UK where State employment levels are high enough that State pay levels would 'restrict growth'.

The fact is, employers in these areas already face wage pressures because the State is artificially inflating levels thanks to national pay. The idea that wages in the south should be lifted, rather than lowered in the north, is insane. Where do you propose we find the money to pay for that?
I know it's insane ,but what about the people who have bought houses and built a lifestyle about their chosen profession based on current income levels ? Are they supposed to accept it and try to sell up or abandon what they have worked for because the government decides they aren't worth as much tomorrow as they where yesterday ?.
Should this proposal actually happen it will be a life changing decision for many people .Of course all this depends on how much they decide to drop the northern wage but going by your earlier statement i would expect it to be quite a lot
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Old 22-04-2012, 22:08   #14
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Re: Lower pay for NHS staff in poorer areas

Seeing as nobody is being threatened with a cash terms pay cut, I don't think lifestyle or mortgage payments should be a concern. Differentials will open up over time. Anyone who has built a lifestyle on the size of pay increases they expect to get next year or the year after is living dangerously regardless of whether regional pay is introduced.
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Old 22-04-2012, 22:12   #15
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Re: Lower pay for NHS staff in poorer areas

All it means is that they will not give pay rises to the North as we can fend for ourselves by other means such as sharing a bed under a few coats.

In other words we are going to get done over by a government who believes civilisation only extends as far as Watford.
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