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[Updated]Abu Qatada finally deported to Jordan
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Old 17-01-2012, 09:50   #1
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[Updated]Abu Qatada finally deported to Jordan

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-16590662

Quote:
Radical cleric Abu Qatada has won his appeal against deportation to Jordan.

The European Court of Human Rights said that the preacher could not be removed from the UK because of Jordan's record on torture.

The Strasbourg judges accepted that the UK's deal with Jordan over treatment of deported suspects was sound.

Abu Qatada has fought for six years against deportation, saying he faced trial based on evidence extracted by torture.

The British government can make a final attempt to appeal the judgement before it becomes binding in three months' time.
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Old 17-01-2012, 09:57   #2
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re: [Updated]Abu Qatada's deportation appeal REJECTED

Another troublemaker have to put up with and support forever then. Evidently the risk he poses to us all is outweighed by the risk that he might suffer if he were deported...
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Old 17-01-2012, 10:03   #3
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re: [Updated]Abu Qatada's deportation appeal REJECTED

The Council of Europe need to replace the European Convention on Human Rights with a new human rights document fit for purpose for the 21st century!
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Old 17-01-2012, 13:43   #4
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re: [Updated]Abu Qatada's deportation appeal REJECTED

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Fry View Post
The Council of Europe need to replace the European Convention on Human Rights with a new human rights document fit for purpose for the 21st century!
What kind of human rights declaration do you imagine would sanction 'exporting' suspects to countries widely recognised for systematic torture?
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Old 17-01-2012, 13:54   #5
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re: [Updated]Abu Qatada's deportation appeal REJECTED

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Originally Posted by ceedee View Post
What kind of human rights declaration do you imagine would sanction 'exporting' suspects to countries widely recognised for systematic torture?
And therin lies the rub: The sort of people who are likely to be terrorrists usually come from the countries that use sharier law and their terrorist ways automatically mean a death penalty under that same law or a long term of improsonment in unpleasant surroundings.

Now personally I would be quite happy to see these people sent back to their own countries to be judged by their own courts and subsequently doled out the penalties that they richly deserved even if that means that they forfiet their lives.

Now unfortunatly we're signed up to a convention that our courts have so twisted that it is a laughing stock with most people but allows the handwringers to sleep easy in their beds even while the rest of us are in fear of our lives.
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Old 17-01-2012, 13:55   #6
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re: [Updated]Abu Qatada's deportation appeal REJECTED

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Originally Posted by ceedee View Post
What kind of human rights declaration do you imagine would sanction 'exporting' suspects to countries widely recognised for systematic torture?
If they have commited crimes in other countries (with the exception of democracy, human rights activists and perscuted people) why should we keep them here, Britain should not be a haven for rouges!
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Old 17-01-2012, 14:10   #7
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re: [Updated]Abu Qatada's deportation appeal REJECTED

We need someone like James Bond who can bump him off, no questions asked.
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Old 17-01-2012, 14:17   #8
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re: [Updated]Abu Qatada's deportation appeal REJECTED

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Originally Posted by Gary L View Post
We need someone like James Bond who can bump him off, no questions asked.
I don't think the bumping off is the difficulty. It's the no questions asked bit that's a little more tricky.
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Old 17-01-2012, 14:41   #9
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re: [Updated]Abu Qatada's deportation appeal REJECTED

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Fry View Post
If they have commited crimes in other countries (with the exception of democracy, human rights activists and perscuted people) why should we keep them here, Britain should not be a haven for rouges
You'd trust the verdicts of a legal system (based largely on Sharia) in a dodgy monarchy acknowledged by the US State Dept as a conducting systematic torture?

How about the cases of Abdel Hakim Belhadj and Sami al-Saadi who were rendered to Gaddafi's Libya along with their families?

Good thing the Chinese government haven't tried the Dali Lama in absentia...

---------- Post added at 14:41 ---------- Previous post was at 14:35 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by heero_yuy View Post
And therin lies the rub: The sort of people who are likely to be terrorrists usually come from the countries that use sharier law and their terrorist ways automatically mean a death penalty under that same law or a long term of improsonment in unpleasant surroundings.

Now personally I would be quite happy to see these people sent back to their own countries to be judged by their own courts and subsequently doled out the penalties that they richly deserved even if that means that they forfiet their lives.

Now unfortunatly we're signed up to a convention that our courts have so twisted that it is a laughing stock with most people but allows the handwringers to sleep easy in their beds even while the rest of us are in fear of our lives.
That you'd be happy to send people to face what we would regard as unfair and unjust trials before execution says volumes for your concept of human rights.

If Qatada was a real ("fear of our lives") threat to the UK, don't you think he'd have been prosecuted here already?
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Old 17-01-2012, 14:43   #10
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re: [Updated]Abu Qatada's deportation appeal REJECTED

Quote:
Originally Posted by heero_yuy View Post

Now unfortunatly we're signed up to a convention that our courts have so twisted that it is a laughing stock with most people but allows the handwringers to sleep easy in their beds even while the rest of us are in fear of our lives.
I'm no hand wringer, but I can honestly say that I'm not in fear of my life.
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Old 17-01-2012, 14:45   #11
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re: [Updated]Abu Qatada's deportation appeal REJECTED

Quote:
Originally Posted by ceedee View Post
You'd trust the verdicts of a legal system (based largely on Sharia) in a dodgy monarchy acknowledged by the US State Dept as a conducting systematic torture?

How about the cases of Abdel Hakim Belhadj and Sami al-Saadi who were rendered to Gaddafi's Libya along with their families?

Good thing the Chinese government haven't tried the Dali Lama in absentia...

---------- Post added at 14:41 ---------- Previous post was at 14:35 ----------


That you'd be happy to send people to face what we would regard as unfair and unjust trials before execution says volumes for your concept of human rights.

If Qatada was a real ("fear of our lives") threat to the UK, don't you think he'd have been prosecuted here already?
Jordan is not as bad as Libya, Iran or Saudi Arabia, but your right it is still not good

Anyway he is not just wanted in Jordan, but in United States, Belgium, Spain, France, Germany, Italy and Algeria
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Old 17-01-2012, 15:04   #12
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re: [Updated]Abu Qatada's deportation appeal REJECTED

Quote:
Originally Posted by ceedee View Post
That you'd be happy to send people to face what we would regard as unfair and unjust trials before execution says volumes for your concept of human rights.

If Qatada was a real ("fear of our lives") threat to the UK, don't you think he'd have been prosecuted here already?
But you see these terrorists WANT this kind of laws and courts to be all over the world. Why shouldn't they be judged by the system they so want to see pre-eminment? I call it poetic justice and have no problem with the death of a convicted terrorist.

He won't get prosecuted here because of the HRA handwringers and even if we did he'd get off with a slap on the wrist and a nice big benefits package.
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Old 17-01-2012, 15:06   #13
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re: [Updated]Abu Qatada's deportation appeal REJECTED

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Fry View Post
Jordan is not as bad as Libya, Iran or Saudi Arabia, but your right it is still not good
"Not good" doesn't even begin to describe Jordanian 'justice'...
"The Court found that torture was widespread in Jordan, as was the use of torture evidence by the Jordanian courts.

The Court also found that, in relation to each of the two terrorist conspiracies charged against Mr Othman, the evidence of his involvement had been obtained by torturing one of his co-defendants.

"When those two co-defendants stood trial, the Jordanian courts had not taken any action in relation to their complaints of torture."

Strasbourg said that it was highly probable that the "decisive" evidence against the preacher had come from abusing these defendants.

"In the absence of any assurance by Jordan that the torture evidence would not be used against Mr Othman, the Court therefore concluded that his deportation to Jordan to be retried would give rise to a flagrant denial of justice in violation of [his right to a fair trial]".

(Source: BBC News)
Quote:
Anyway he is not just wanted in Jordan, but in United States, Belgium, Spain, France, Germany, Italy and Algeria
Makes you wonder why the UK made no attempt to extradite Qatada to a state that doesn't torture, doesn't it?
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Old 17-01-2012, 15:09   #14
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re: [Updated]Abu Qatada's deportation appeal REJECTED

Quote:
Originally Posted by ceedee View Post
"Not good" doesn't even begin to describe Jordanian 'justice'...
"The Court found that torture was widespread in Jordan, as was the use of torture evidence by the Jordanian courts.

The Court also found that, in relation to each of the two terrorist conspiracies charged against Mr Othman, the evidence of his involvement had been obtained by torturing one of his co-defendants.

"When those two co-defendants stood trial, the Jordanian courts had not taken any action in relation to their complaints of torture."

Strasbourg said that it was highly probable that the "decisive" evidence against the preacher had come from abusing these defendants.

"In the absence of any assurance by Jordan that the torture evidence would not be used against Mr Othman, the Court therefore concluded that his deportation to Jordan to be retried would give rise to a flagrant denial of justice in violation of [his right to a fair trial]".

(Source: BBC News)

Makes you wonder why the UK made no attempt to extradite Qatada to a state that doesn't torture, doesn't it?
But he come is not a human rights, democracy activist or a refugee, so he has no reason not to be deported!
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Old 17-01-2012, 15:12   #15
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re: [Updated]Abu Qatada's deportation appeal REJECTED

Quote:
Originally Posted by ceedee View Post
<snip>

Makes you wonder why the UK made no attempt to extradite Qatada to a state that doesn't torture, doesn't it?
Has there been an extradition request from any of those countries?
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