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U.S President: Donald Trump
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Old 25-03-2017, 11:48   #931
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Re: U.S President: Donald Trump

The Healthcare system in US is and has been a joke for a long time. $680 for pills that cost $20 to make.

Basically they have a system which puts profit before welfare.

While we may complain here about the NHS, we really would not put up with that crap they have over there.
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Old 25-03-2017, 12:16   #932
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Re: U.S President: Donald Trump

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Originally Posted by Mick View Post
Steady on, you're getting ahead of yourself as usual. He has another 3-7 years to sort the mess that Obamacare is. It was not actually Trumps healthcare plan. This bill that failed was Ryancare....
https://www.forbes.com/sites/theapot.../#436ee7a1168f
I think you're finding a novel way to excuse Trump's worst day in power. Trump tried and failed to sell the healthcare plan to his party. Yet he cites selling and getting a good deal as his key strength. No one's pretending that Trump wrote the document itself, though as I pointed out, it appears Trump did not even read it, favouring the golf course over the library.
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Old 25-03-2017, 13:00   #933
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Re: U.S President: Donald Trump

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Originally Posted by 1andrew1 View Post
I think you're finding a novel way to excuse Trump's worst day in power. Trump tried and failed to sell the healthcare plan to his party. Yet he cites selling and getting a good deal as his key strength. No one's pretending that Trump wrote the document itself, though as I pointed out, it appears Trump did not even read it, favouring the golf course over the library.
Care to show evidence of him not reading it, or is this more of your negative agenda working overtime ?
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Old 25-03-2017, 13:08   #934
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Re: U.S President: Donald Trump

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Care to show evidence of him not reading it, or is this more of your negative agenda working overtime ?
So what proof do you have that he did read it? What he promised during and after the election campaign was so far from what was offered in this newer attempt at providing healthcare that I did wonder why he approved it?
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Old 25-03-2017, 13:12   #935
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Re: U.S President: Donald Trump

Trump either didn't read it or didn't understand it. The bill aka Trumpcare or Ryancare would have broken one of Trump’s promises - to protect entitlements, including Medicaid. Trump was surprised to learn this from his opponents.
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Old 25-03-2017, 13:23   #936
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Re: U.S President: Donald Trump

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So what proof do you have that he did read it?
Point out to me where I said he had.
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Old 25-03-2017, 13:34   #937
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Re: U.S President: Donald Trump

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Point out to me where I said he had.
The fact that you asked me for proof indicates that you believe he read it. Or why bother asking the question?
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Old 25-03-2017, 14:16   #938
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Re: U.S President: Donald Trump

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The fact that you asked me for proof indicates that you believe he read it. Or why bother asking the question?
The fact nothing. Rubbish. You said he appeared to not have read it. I'm asking YOU to show evidence he has not, don't turn this back on to me, as I have not said he has, at all!
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Old 25-03-2017, 14:28   #939
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Re: U.S President: Donald Trump

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The fact nothing. Rubbish. You said he appeared to not have read it. I'm asking YOU to show evidence he has not, don't turn this back on to me, as I have not said he has, at all!
You've been supplied with the available evidence from both both Maggie and me.
I am not turning it back on you. Your colleague Maggie asked you to supply proof that he had read it in the face of the evidence that suggests he did not. When you queried this with her, I pointed out the obvious logic of why you should ask for evidence that he didn't read it if you too didn't believe he had read it.
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Old 25-03-2017, 18:42   #940
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Re: U.S President: Donald Trump

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Originally Posted by Mick View Post
Point out to me where I said he had.
You got me scratching my head here..

Quote:
Care to show evidence of him not reading it, or is this more of your negative agenda working overtime
Come on Mick this is not debating and you completely ignored the rest of my question.
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Old 25-03-2017, 20:32   #941
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Re: U.S President: Donald Trump

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Originally Posted by Maggy J View Post
You got me scratching my head here..



Come on Mick this is not debating and you completely ignored the rest of my question.
Come on Mick nothing. That quote of mine is not me saying he read it. Me asking for evidence is in no way making any kind of statement he read it.

I ignored it because I cannot answer a question that has nothing to do with me. You were asking why he approved it, you would have to ask him, not me.
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Old 25-03-2017, 20:57   #942
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Re: U.S President: Donald Trump

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Come on Mick nothing. That quote of mine is not me saying he read it. Me asking for evidence is in no way making any kind of statement he read it.

I ignored it because I cannot answer a question that has nothing to do with me. You were asking why he approved it, you would have to ask him, not me.
This is meant to be discussion forum, not an argument forum. We've given you evidence which appears to suggest that Trump did not read the bill, at your request. It's only fair that you reciprocate or tell us why you asked for it in the first place if you agreed with us.
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Old 25-03-2017, 21:21   #943
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Re: U.S President: Donald Trump

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Originally Posted by 1andrew1 View Post
This is meant to be discussion forum, not an argument forum.
I have not argued. I have simple asked you to show what gives you the impression he has not read it, I don't want to see spoken opinons, this is not evidence. He may not have read it, quite frankly, I couldn't give a toss if he has or hasn't, it is still in no way me saying he read something when I ask for you to show me what gives you the impression he has not read it.

When Police ask to see evidence if you accuse someone of doing something to you, this is not them saying they don't agree with you, this is them asking you to back up your statement, this is what I am asking, it's not me saying show me evidence because I believe he read it, I don't know he read it and as I said above, I really couldn't give one iota if he did or did not, I just know it was not a actually his bill.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1
We've given you evidence which appears to suggest that Trump did not read the bill, at your request. It's only fair that you reciprocate or tell us why you asked for it in the first place if you agreed with us.
Have you? Where ? You really do have this issue of what you consider to be evidence when it is only an opinion, a spoken opinion is not evidence.
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Old 25-03-2017, 21:48   #944
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Re: U.S President: Donald Trump

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Originally Posted by Mick View Post
I have not argued. I have simple asked you to show what gives you the impression he has not read it, I don't want to see spoken opinons, this is not evidence. He may not have read it, quite frankly, I couldn't give a toss if he has or hasn't, it is still in no way me saying he read something when I ask for you to show me what gives you the impression he has not read it.

When Police ask to see evidence if you accuse someone of doing something to you, this is not them saying they don't agree with you, this is them asking you to back up your statement, this is what I am asking, it's not me saying show me evidence because I believe he read it, I don't know he read it and as I said above, I really couldn't give one iota if he did or did not, I just know it was not a actually his bill.

Have you? Where ? You really do have this issue of what you consider to be evidence when it is only an opinion, a spoken opinion is not evidence.
This is an example of argument, not discussion:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick View Post
Care to show evidence of him not reading it, or is this more of your negative agenda working overtime ?
"Care to show..." is a leading and inflammatory statement. Debates and discussions focus on the debate and the supporting evidence not on trying to rile the person you're discussing the matter with.

Adding a put-down to the poster "or is this more of your negative agenda working overtime?" is what people do in arguments, not discussions. It is irrelevant to the debate.

In terms of evidence, this is a discussion forum and not a police station. There are various types of evidence and some are relevant to a crime scene and others to political debates such as this one. We're not trying to get a burglary conviction, as that requires a higher burden of proof. I've provided what I know, as has Maggie. Trump did seem to be unaware that the bill contradicted his election promises until his opponents pointed this out to him.

The alternative was that Trump read the bill from end to end and was happy to forgot his election commitments to protect entitlements including Medicaid. Trump's opponents might think that but I don't.

What do you think is more likely?

Last edited by 1andrew1; 25-03-2017 at 21:54.
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Old 25-03-2017, 22:02   #945
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Re: U.S President: Donald Trump

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it was not a actually his bill.
Kinda was , it was his bill of choice to replace Obamacare ,makes him responsible .Given the threat to 24 million people if i was an American i would hope he had done every thing possible to ensure it was going to be better than what it was meant to replace
 
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