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Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'
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Old 21-02-2012, 19:12   #46
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Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'

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Originally Posted by martyh View Post
err..i believe it's aimed at anybody .
work experience is exactly what it says 'work experience' ,it's not just about gaining skills ,although that is important what is equally as important is learning how to get up in the morning and be on time ,to do what you are told and how to conduct yourself in a work environment ,all valuable lessons for people of any age who have not worked for a long time .All of the above can be learned in any job including dishwashing
You'd better tell the deputy PM that as he thinks it's aimed more towards the young to, so does the boss of Tesco's and do you really think that the sort of person that can't get up in the morning is going to take part in a voluntary scheme.

Tesco UK's chief executive Richard Brasher said: "We know it is difficult for young people to give up benefits for a short-term placement with no permanent job at the end of it.

"So this guarantee that a job will be available provided the placement is completed satisfactorily, should be a major confidence boost for young people wanting to enter work on a permanent basis."

Mr Clegg added: "It is very simple. We say to employers, 'Please take on these young people.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/mobile/uk-politics-17116473
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Old 21-02-2012, 19:14   #47
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Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'

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Originally Posted by martyh View Post
err..i believe it's aimed at anybody .
work experience is exactly what it says 'work experience' ,it's not just about gaining skills ,although that is important what is equally as important is learning how to get up in the morning and be on time ,to do what you are told and how to conduct yourself in a work environment ,all valuable lessons for people of any age who have not worked for a long time .All of the above can be learned in any job including dishwashing
All i would say about this scheme is this if any company has a vacancy then let that company pay the going rate for the job,ie the rate they pay everybody else lets not dress this up as work expierience when in reality its cheap labour by any other name.

At least sainsburys and other companies that have pulled out recognise that simple fact.
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Old 21-02-2012, 20:01   #48
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Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'

I still think this is a scheme which leads to exploitation. Free temporary labour for the likes of Tesco. I would prefer it if it were limited to non-profit or governmental work and not for commercial enterprise. Realistically what can be gained but a month stacking shelfs?
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Old 21-02-2012, 20:13   #49
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Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'

I've heard that shops/companies are approaching the jobcentres now asking if they can have some free labour.

it was the jobcentres approaching the shops/companies up until now.

see, everyone thinks Xmas has come early!

---------- Post added at 19:13 ---------- Previous post was at 19:05 ----------

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Originally Posted by Damien View Post
Realistically what can be gained but a month stacking shelfs?
Fills the gaps on your CV. employers don't like to see gaps.
(put forced to work as a slave for 4 weeks)

Gives you a moral boost for doing something with yourself.
(as long as you stop remembering that you were forced to do this, and you don't mind the person who gets a full wage telling you to do the hard work. then you should be ok)

Helps keep the tax payers happy.
(that you're the main reason why this country doesn't have to employ anyone anymore, because the government introduced a 'free workers farm' for companies to take a handful from.

Back to the new entry on your CV.
(take it to a company that doesn't use free workers)
(if you can find one that doesn't)
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Old 22-02-2012, 06:17   #50
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Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'

The taxpayers are happy of course until the point they stop been a taxpayer and another person working for their JSA instead.

If tesco dont back down by next week then I will have to carry out my threat to them and use sainsburies next week for my food shopping.
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Old 22-02-2012, 07:50   #51
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Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'

Stop giving work experience, or stop giving a quarter of those who had been on work experience a permanent job?
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Old 22-02-2012, 10:06   #52
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Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'

I simply said stop taking part in DWP schemes which is work placements for JSA.

If tesco want to pay a wage (which would be independent of JSA) for work placements I have no issue with.

Why are these work placements for JSA claimants only and with sanctions for pulling out?

and of course a bigger issue that these schemes could be used on sick claimants in future.
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Old 22-02-2012, 11:59   #53
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Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'

And 400 people got jobs with Tesco after undertaking the JSA work placements - if they stop those, they don't get to evaluate potential candidates.

btw, very few short-term "work placements" pay wages (including internships / work experiences for Labour MPs and Unions).
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Old 22-02-2012, 12:34   #54
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Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'

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And 400 people got jobs with Tesco after undertaking the JSA work placements - if they stop those, they don't get to evaluate potential candidates.

btw, very few short-term "work placements" pay wages (including internships / work experiences for Labour MPs and Unions).
Why do they need to have JSA work placements to evaluate candidates? they could take people on at the going rate for say a three months contract if the candidate was any good keep them on after that no problems.

Why they need taxpayer funded applicants is beyond me.

I shop with tesco and have done for years taking part in these schemes damages their reputation no end at least sainsburys and other companies had the sense to see that.

---------- Post added at 11:34 ---------- Previous post was at 11:09 ----------

IDS comes out fighting i do not agree with the scheme but he does have a point about jobs snobs though.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/poli...-job-snob.html
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Old 22-02-2012, 13:13   #55
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Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'

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Originally Posted by richard1960 View Post
Why do they need to have JSA work placements to evaluate candidates? they could take people on at the going rate for say a three months contract if the candidate was any good keep them on after that no problems.

Why they need taxpayer funded applicants is beyond me.

I shop with tesco and have done for years taking part in these schemes damages their reputation no end at least sainsburys and other companies had the sense to see that.

---------- Post added at 11:34 ---------- Previous post was at 11:09 ----------

IDS comes out fighting i do not agree with the scheme but he does have a point about jobs snobs though.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/poli...-job-snob.html
I wonder when he stacked shelves in his career?Easy enough to accuse others of snobbery if one hasn't done the job either.It's low paid,low status and pension options are crap.The only people who want to do it are probably working another part time low paid job.
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Old 22-02-2012, 13:17   #56
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Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'

I dont think many will say been a layabout is better than stacking shelves however the fact he came out with that comment means he is out of touch with the real issue.

If tesco have vacancies for trial positions then they should be advertising these to everyone and paying any wage on top of whatever income that person may already have.
The DWP shouldnt be discriminating on age which they do time and time again. It seems been long term unemployed is fine the older you are with more entitlement to housing costs as well as less pushing from the job centre to find work.
If they want to shrug of slave labour labeling the very yeast they need to do is scrap any sanctions for not taking part, tesco have insisted on this themselves so if IDS doesnt back down they will probably pull out I expect, if he does back down my guess is they will stay in.

I agree maggy although its better than nothing his comments are very wrong.
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Old 22-02-2012, 13:30   #57
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Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'

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Originally Posted by Maggy J View Post
I wonder when he stacked shelves in his career?Easy enough to accuse others of snobbery if one hasn't done the job either.It's low paid,low status and pension options are crap.The only people who want to do it are probably working another part time low paid job.
I take your point Maggy,but when i started work in 1976 manual labour such as these jobs was not looked down upon as it is now,east europeans are finding work as our young do not want to do this type myself i would do this work if that was on offer.

Tesco i believe offer a career average pension to all their employees plus a profit sharing scheme so it would be wrong to say the options are crap people on the shop floor can go up if they wish but only if they have a job in the first place.

I have a friend who works in what you might describe as "low paid low status job" for £6.90 an hour but he gets tax credits to make his money up so is better off then on the dole.

The uk youth would be better off and so would anybody else who looks down their nose at these jobs to respect the people doing what is after all a very necessary job.

I have done low paid work in my past and certainly i am no job snob.
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Old 22-02-2012, 17:07   #58
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Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'

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Originally Posted by richard1960 View Post
Why do they need to have JSA work placements to evaluate candidates? they could take people on at the going rate for say a three months contract if the candidate was any good keep them on after that no problems.

Why they need taxpayer funded applicants is beyond me.

I shop with tesco and have done for years taking part in these schemes damages their reputation no end at least sainsburys and other companies had the sense to see that.

---------- Post added at 11:34 ---------- Previous post was at 11:09 ----------

IDS comes out fighting i do not agree with the scheme but he does have a point about jobs snobs though.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/poli...-job-snob.html
They don't - they (and others) only took part in this scheme to support it, because, as I stated earlier in this thread, there is still a lot of admin and support work involved even when someone is on a work placement (if people come to our place on a two week placement, they still have to have an induction, basic H&S training, and on the job training and supervision (which leads to the people doing this being less productive)). However, if at the end of the work placement, there are vacancies, it would be silly not to hire someone whom you had already trained and had shown the capability to do the job).

My son and daughter have stacked shelves in the evenings as summer jobs, and it takes a couple of weeks before any shelf stackers are felt capable of being allowed to do it unsupervised (as doing it wrong really peeves the customers if the stuff isn't in the right place the right way).

Trust me, work placements are not "free labour", not if you have to train and manage them.

There's an opinion piece in today's Times that puts it well, imho Times (behind a paywall)
Quote:
It all started when the employment minister Chris Grayling had a letter from a distraught constituent who said that her daughter was thrilled finally to find a month’s unpaid work placement at a local company until she discovered that she would lose her benefits. This led to the bizarrely named Sector-Based Work Academies programme, born to allow those on benefits to try unpaid work for 30 hours a week.

Initially big companies had to be cajoled into the scheme. Taking on young people for a month or two is expensive — they need uniforms, training and nurturing; they aren’t a substitute for paid staff. Ministers were thrilled to have attracted companies such as Boots, Argos, the Arcadia group, Primark and McDonald’s.

The Department of Work and Pensions decided that a period of four to eight weeks would give young people enough time to try out the job without companies starting to take them for granted. “We weren’t manacling these young people and forcing them through supermarket doors to stack beans all night,” Mr Grayling points out. “They could leave after three days if they hated it.”

Instead it has been a huge success and very oversubscribed. Nearly 40,000 people have been through the scheme. Almost half of those who do placements have since come off benefits, many finding jobs with their sponsors. Tesco has taken on nearly a third of those who have done placements there......

...But, just as importantly, these volunteers are learning skills that shouldn’t be derided. Andy Clarke, the chief executive of Asda, started as a supermarket stacker at Fine Fare. Stuart Rose, the former boss of M&S, began his working life folding men’s jumpers. Terry Leahy, the former CEO of Tesco, washed supermarket floors as a 16-year-old. None of them saw their work as menial but as a stepping stone.
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Old 22-02-2012, 17:29   #59
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Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'

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Originally Posted by richard1960 View Post
IDS comes out fighting i do not agree with the scheme but he does have a point about jobs snobs though.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/poli...-job-snob.html
He may have a point about Job snobs, but I've been a shelf stacker, and you don't get much training or supervision. In Sainsburys, the training I got consisted of being sat in front of a video for about 40 minutes. The Admin was filling out a couple of forms, and ordering my uniform. In all, I was out on the floor stacking shelves about an hour after starting.

So, I would argue on that point at least, he is talking out of somewhere the sun don't shine.
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Old 22-02-2012, 18:09   #60
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Re: Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'

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Originally Posted by Stuart View Post
He may have a point about Job snobs, but I've been a shelf stacker, and you don't get much training or supervision. In Sainsburys, the training I got consisted of being sat in front of a video for about 40 minutes. The Admin was filling out a couple of forms, and ordering my uniform. In all, I was out on the floor stacking shelves about an hour after starting.

So, I would argue on that point at least, he is talking out of somewhere the sun don't shine.
Ok you might not get much job training but being on the dole is much worse IMO.

So what if an hour after starting people were stacking shelves as the poles have found a job is a job and that can lead upwards a colleague of mines daughter started as a shelf stacker and is now a manager at Tesco.

Job Snobs do my head in.

---------- Post added at 17:09 ---------- Previous post was at 16:42 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh View Post
They don't - they (and others) only took part in this scheme to support it, because, as I stated earlier in this thread, there is still a lot of admin and support work involved even when someone is on a work placement (if people come to our place on a two week placement, they still have to have an induction, basic H&S training, and on the job training and supervision (which leads to the people doing this being less productive)). However, if at the end of the work placement, there are vacancies, it would be silly not to hire someone whom you had already trained and had shown the capability to do the job).

My son and daughter have stacked shelves in the evenings as summer jobs, and it takes a couple of weeks before any shelf stackers are felt capable of being allowed to do it unsupervised (as doing it wrong really peeves the customers if the stuff isn't in the right place the right way).

Trust me, work placements are not "free labour", not if you have to train and manage them.

There's an opinion piece in today's Times that puts it well, imho Times (behind a paywall)
According to stuart you can stack shelves within an hour of starting at sainburys. !

I do not deride these jobs in fact i support them all i ask is that those that do them get the going rate for the job,and not some government work for the benefit programme as this only serves as a subsidy to big buisness.
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