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The future for linear TV channels
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Old 02-03-2015, 01:27   #166
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Re: The future for linear TV channels

....but the BBC has a massive income and what do we get night after night on its tv channels, soap and reality mostly. There used to be decent sitcoms and dramas on the beeb, but not anymore and yet the BBC still complain about the amount of money they receive.

What Netflix has shown is that if you can make the right show and distribute it as widely as possible, you can make money. And as I said earlier in the thread, one possible future may be a p2p solution for the funding of high quality tv shows centred around the writers and creators who make the stuff.

I will NEVER go back to aimlessly watching linear channels night after night unless there is a decent and broad selection of shows to watch.
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Old 02-03-2015, 10:16   #167
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Re: The future for linear TV channels

I'm not sure that stands up to scrutiny. The BBC puts out a lot of original drama and comedy and, much as I dislike soap operas of all kinds, even I have to admit that 30 minutes of Eastenders most weeknights hardly qualifies as "mostly" what's on the BBC night after night. And which reality shows did you have in mind? IIRC the only show currently on the BBC that qualifies for that category is the daft zombie apocalypse gameshow currently running on Three.

---------- Post added at 09:16 ---------- Previous post was at 08:23 ----------

Tony Hall is expected to announc today that the BBC accepts the days of the licence fee are numbered, and things must change. There is therefore now a new thread specifically for comments about the BBC and its funding, available here:

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/22...cence-fee.html

Please make comments about the licence fee in the new thread, and not here, as it will save me having to move or delete them.
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Old 02-03-2015, 12:28   #168
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Re: The future for linear TV channels

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Originally Posted by Horizon View Post
....but the BBC has a massive income and what do we get night after night on its tv channels, soap and reality mostly. There used to be decent sitcoms and dramas on the beeb, but not anymore and yet the BBC still complain about the amount of money they receive.
The BBC still do decent dramas (I like The Musketeers and Doctor Who for instance).. I don't think they do any decent sitcoms, but, tbh, I don't think any UK channel are doing decent sitcoms at the moment.

Regarding your statement about getting soap and reality night after night, the BBC don't actually have an reality shows (apart from The Voice and that zombie thing) on at the moment. Even looking at tonight's line up for BBC one, we have the National News, followed by the local news, then Inside Out (an investigative journalism program), then Eastenders. After EE, we have Panorama, followed by Crimewatch then the national and local news again. In fact, ignoring EE, the first non-factual programme on BBC one tonight is Waterloo Road, which starts at 5 to 11.

On BBC Two, we have mostly quiz programmes, apart from Top Gear, A Cook Abroad and Lets play darts for comic relief.
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Old 02-03-2015, 14:19   #169
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Re: The future for linear TV channels

Quote:
Originally Posted by Horizon View Post
....but the BBC has a massive income and what do we get night after night on its tv channels, soap and reality mostly. There used to be decent sitcoms and dramas on the beeb, but not anymore and yet the BBC still complain about the amount of money they receive.

What Netflix has shown is that if you can make the right show and distribute it as widely as possible, you can make money. And as I said earlier in the thread, one possible future may be a p2p solution for the funding of high quality tv shows centred around the writers and creators who make the stuff.

I will NEVER go back to aimlessly watching linear channels night after night unless there is a decent and broad selection of shows to watch.
I agree with your last two paragraphs.

I do think that when the linear channels are eventually withdrawn, we will be paying for the BBC on a subscription basis (which will be rather less than the existing licence fee) and instead of buying in programmes from abroad, the library of programmes will all be from the BBC's own productions. Money will be saved from not buying in programmes from elsewhere and not having to maintain all those TV channels.

Whether the BBC has a joint platform with the likes of ITV, Channel 4 and Channel 5 remains to be seen, but it would make economic sense.

Although it looks as if we have a huge number of channels available to us via broadcast TV, it must be borne in mind that the majority of programmes are repeats, with not a great deal of original material.

In future, I believe that we will have a vast choice of previously broadcast material at our fingertips, plus the new stuff. How much that will cost, I don't know, but the competition between providers should bring the price down. If it costs £6.99 per month per provider (as is currently the case with Netflix), this would give us quite a good choice and will probably save pay tv subscribers quite a lot of money as we won't be paying for unwanted bundled channels.

Those who cannot afford to pay much should be able to get access to the current terrestrial channels at no extra cost (but by subscription rather than the licence fee).
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Old 02-03-2015, 16:43   #170
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Re: The future for linear TV channels

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Originally Posted by Chris View Post
I'm not sure that stands up to scrutiny. The BBC puts out a lot of original drama and comedy and, much as I dislike soap operas of all kinds, even I have to admit that 30 minutes of Eastenders most weeknights hardly qualifies as "mostly" what's on the BBC night after night. And which reality shows did you have in mind? IIRC the only show currently on the BBC that qualifies for that category is the daft zombie apocalypse gameshow currently running on Three.

---------- Post added at 09:16 ---------- Previous post was at 08:23 ----------

Tony Hall is expected to announc today that the BBC accepts the days of the licence fee are numbered, and things must change. There is therefore now a new thread specifically for comments about the BBC and its funding, available here:

http://www.cableforum.co.uk/board/22...cence-fee.html

Please make comments about the licence fee in the new thread, and not here, as it will save me having to move or delete them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuart View Post
The BBC still do decent dramas (I like The Musketeers and Doctor Who for instance).. I don't think they do any decent sitcoms, but, tbh, I don't think any UK channel are doing decent sitcoms at the moment.

Regarding your statement about getting soap and reality night after night, the BBC don't actually have an reality shows (apart from The Voice and that zombie thing) on at the moment. Even looking at tonight's line up for BBC one, we have the National News, followed by the local news, then Inside Out (an investigative journalism program), then Eastenders. After EE, we have Panorama, followed by Crimewatch then the national and local news again. In fact, ignoring EE, the first non-factual programme on BBC one tonight is Waterloo Road, which starts at 5 to 11.

On BBC Two, we have mostly quiz programmes, apart from Top Gear, A Cook Abroad and Lets play darts for comic relief.
We can all pick and choose a particular day or schedule to advance our arguments. But I don't think what anyone could argue against is that across the main broadcast channels (as talk specifically on the BBC has been prohibited) the schedules are dominated by soaps, chefs, antiques, following the police/ambulance/council workers etc which are all reality type shows, quizes, house buying/makeover and many other kinds of reality shows.

I happen to like quizzes, I used to like soaps, I dislike the chefs and antiques (which are also reality-ish shows), but quite like many of the other type reality shows on. I am not against these shows, I am against the quantity of them on especially on the five main channels that have a legal remit to show a variety of programmes suitable for as wider audience as possible.

A broadcaster is meant to be just that - broad, something for everyone but their evening schedules on most days (again, we can all pick and choose a particular timeframe to advance our arguments) are saturated with these shows at the expense of decent dramas and comedies with should be the backbone of an evening schedule.

On Netflix at 9pm, or 9.03pm, or 10.02pm, I can watch a decent drama and at the exact time I want to. I am not saying linear tv will die off completely, but it will diminish and in the case of both funding methods of the five main channels, their existence will come under ever increasing pressure.

And by the way, I don't think Netflix will survive another ten years, but that's a whole different thing altogether!
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Old 02-03-2015, 16:58   #171
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Re: The future for linear TV channels

There is no prohibition on discussing the BBC. What there is, is a request to discuss the specific issue of the future of the TV licence, in a new thread.
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Old 02-03-2015, 17:20   #172
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Re: The future for linear TV channels

Quote:
Originally Posted by Horizon View Post
We can all pick and choose a particular day or schedule to advance our arguments. But I don't think what anyone could argue against is that across the main broadcast channels (as talk specifically on the BBC has been prohibited) the schedules are dominated by soaps, chefs, antiques, following the police/ambulance/council workers etc which are all reality type shows, quizes, house buying/makeover and many other kinds of reality shows.
One simple answer, its cheap TV, there isn't the money from advertisers to fill the schedule with high quality programming 24/7. Think of the big advertisers that have gone. If you want quality TV programmes then the funding has to come from elsewhere, the cash cow of advertisers has had its day, they are too thinly spread over multiple channels
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Old 02-03-2015, 17:20   #173
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Re: The future for linear TV channels

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Originally Posted by OLD BOY View Post
I agree with your last two paragraphs.

I do think that when the linear channels are eventually withdrawn, we will be paying for the BBC on a subscription basis (which will be rather less than the existing licence fee) and instead of buying in programmes from abroad, the library of programmes will all be from the BBC's own productions. Money will be saved from not buying in programmes from elsewhere and not having to maintain all those TV channels.

Whether the BBC has a joint platform with the likes of ITV, Channel 4 and Channel 5 remains to be seen, but it would make economic sense.

Although it looks as if we have a huge number of channels available to us via broadcast TV, it must be borne in mind that the majority of programmes are repeats, with not a great deal of original material.

In future, I believe that we will have a vast choice of previously broadcast material at our fingertips, plus the new stuff. How much that will cost, I don't know, but the competition between providers should bring the price down. If it costs £6.99 per month per provider (as is currently the case with Netflix), this would give us quite a good choice and will probably save pay tv subscribers quite a lot of money as we won't be paying for unwanted bundled channels.

Those who cannot afford to pay much should be able to get access to the current terrestrial channels at no extra cost (but by subscription rather than the licence fee).
There was a lot of discussion in the former cablecos about VOD (video on demand) and how it should be integrated into normal tv and this was long before streaming services such as Netflix came along.

One idea that NTL (I think it was them) was looking at was to have VOD channels next to their linear channels on the EPG. We see a little bit of that today with VM's VOD channels at the start of the music section, but it was originally going to be far more widespread.

The feeling was that the linear channels would be almost like shop windows into the various programmes, but you would then access the VOD channel for the main bulk of your tv viewing. So, the EPG might have looked something like this:

CH 101 - BBC 1 - linear tv channel
CH 102 - BBC 2 - linear tv channel
CH 103 - BBC VOD - gateway to access more BBC shows
CH 104 - ITV 1 - linear tv channel
CH 105 - ITV VOD - gateway to access more ITV shows
CH 106 - Channel 4 - linear tv channel
CH 107 - CH4 VOD - gateway to access more Ch4 shows
CH 108 - Channel 5 - linear tv channel
CH 109 - CH5 VOD - gateway to access more Ch5 shows

The feeling was that you wouldn't have all the BBC/ITV/CH4 & 5 offshoot channels because you could access the vast vault of shows available from the main broadcasters on VOD.

I've no idea what happened to that idea, clearly it was dropped and I think the BBC already had iplayer by then in any case.

I suspect the broadcasters, especially the commercial ones, disliked the idea of their main advertising funded channels being relegated to nothing more than shop windows in favour of their shows being nothing more than a commodity that is stored on the cable companies servers. But today we still have the traditional VOD service and offshoot channels littering the EPG, so we have the "best" of both worlds...

I agree with you about all the repeats on the channels, so although it seems like we're getting massive choice, we are not. Case in point:

NCIS/Law & Order/CSI and their offshoot shows at any one time are shown on several channels at the SAME time. That is not choice and it excludes all the +1 and HD channels too. Take a look, you'll find these shows on the following channels:

CH 5
Sky One
Sky Living
Fox
Universal
5 USA

Add in the the +1s and HD, and on some evenings these shows can be on a dozen or more channels all at the same time!
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Old 05-03-2015, 14:14   #174
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Re: The future for linear TV channels

http://www.rapidtvnews.com/201503053...#axzz3TW3MyQgB

This article predicts a rise in mobile video in the next ten years.

Whilst I suppose that technically it is, do people generally regard mobile video as VOD or as something separate?
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Old 17-03-2015, 13:39   #175
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Re: The future for linear TV channels

Another indication of the likely demise of linear channels over time is contained in this article I have discovered in the Daily Telegraph web site.

Although the Telegraph article below describes the position in the US, it is a foregone conclusion that we will follow their lead. The trend is towards more streaming services and a continuing drift away from linear channels. Although this will impact on pay tv first of all, it is only a matter of time before Freeview itself is impacted by this change in viewing habits and the declining advertising revenue that results.

Vote now in Muppetman's poll to indicate your opinion!

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technolog...g-service.html

Apple 'planning TV streaming service'
Apple could launch a TV streaming service, in partnership with US broadcasters such as ABC, CBS and Fox

Apple is reportedly planning to launch an online TV service, allowing users to stream video content from around 25 channels on their iPhones, iPads and Apple TV set-top boxes.

The technology giant is in talks with US broadcasters such as ABC, CBS and Fox to launch the service. The idea is to offer a “skinny” bundle with popular channels like CBS, ESPN and FX, while leaving out many of the less well-known networks that are included in standard cable TV packages.

For now, the talks don’t involve NBCUniversal, because of a falling-out between Apple and NBCUniversal parent company Comcast, according to the Wall Street Journal.

It is thought that Apple's online TV service will be accessed via a subscription, costing between $30 and $40 per month. The new service could be announced in June and launched in September. Apple refused to comment on the report.

The move comes amid a major shift in TV viewing habits, with many people now foregoing cable and satellite pay-TV services in favour of online streaming services like Netflix and Amazon Prime Instant Video.

Only yesterday it was reported that YouTube is planning to launch a subscription-based video-on-demand service that will allow users to watch unlimited videos without ads for a set monthly fee.

Meanwhile, Apple announced last week that it had secured exclusive early access to the forthcoming HBO Now streaming service, allowing Apple device owners to watch popular series such as Game of Thrones.

"Tim Cook’s HBO announcement should have been a heads up on Apple’s latest thinking around TV services. The company has been trying for years to get into the streaming TV market, and cash in on the demand from users for TV from their internet connection," said Jeremy Davies, CEO and co-founder at analyst firm Context.

"This latest attempt reportedly has the backing from several major US channels, but Apple’s goal of a live TV streaming service with a vast cloud-based on-demand library could still run into problems in trying to get the rights to all the shows it needs."

There is no indication of whether Apple would launch an online TV service outside of the US. However, this would require Apple to make licensing deals with local broadcasters, meaning there would likely be a significant delay before the service reached the UK.
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Old 17-03-2015, 13:55   #176
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Re: The future for linear TV channels

All that Apple is doing is allowing people to watch linear TV on their tablets and mobile phones. This positively benefits live channels.
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Old 17-03-2015, 14:00   #177
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Re: The future for linear TV channels

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All that Apple is doing is allowing people to watch linear TV on their tablets and mobile phones. This positively benefits live channels.
I'd say possibly more damaging to pay TV platforms as this offers key channels for a low monthly subscription it also brings people into the apple ecosystem.
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Old 17-03-2015, 14:43   #178
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Re: The future for linear TV channels

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Originally Posted by 1andrew1 View Post
All that Apple is doing is allowing people to watch linear TV on their tablets and mobile phones. This positively benefits live channels.
It looks like an online streaming service but it doesn't make clear whether or not advertisements are included. The fact that it is accessed by subscription indicates to me that advertisements are not included, but I will see if more information about this service becomes available.

---------- Post added at 13:43 ---------- Previous post was at 13:20 ----------

I have followed this up and I think I now understand what is proposed.

This report from the Mail website from July 2013 (reproduced in part below) indicates a possible means of reprieve for the linear TV channels.

If broadcast channels are compensated for revenue lost by the streaming companies, this might be the lifeline they need.

However, you have to wonder whether this arrangement would survive the test of time if most people watched their TV through streaming services. Why would these streaming companies wish to continue with such an arrangement when a minority watch the linear channels in the conventional way?

Still, a rosier picture than I thought possible before I read this.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencete...rs-finger.html

Apple's new TV set 'will have NO adverts and could be controlled by remote control ring worn on a viewer's finger'
Apple said to be in talks with broadcasters about an advert-free TV model
Adverts could be skipped at the press of a button on recorded shows
Rumours also suggest the 60-inch screen could be controlled by a ring

By VICTORIA WOOLLASTON

PUBLISHED: 17:13, 17 July 2013 | UPDATED: 08:09, 18 July 2013


Apple is said to be looking at ways to remove adverts from its rumoured TV set in a bid to boost sales if and when the device launches later this year.

The company has reportedly spoken with broadcasters about the deal and is even thought to have offered to compensate them for any revenue they lose as a result.

Other rumours claim the TV set could be controlled using a ring worn on a viewer's finger.

Apple already offers TV shows and films through its Apple TV box, but the company is also rumoured to be working on a TV set with a 60-inch screen that could potentially let viewers skip adverts on recorded shows

Apple already offers TV shows and films through its Apple TV box, but the company is also rumoured to be working on a TV set with a 60-inch screen that could potentially let viewers skip adverts on recorded shows.

U.S media is reporting that Apple wants viewers of its TV set to be able to skip through all adverts at the press of a single button when watching on-demand shows.

It would be a slight difference to the current model seen on set-top boxes, such as Virgin's TiVo, that lets users fast-forward though advertising on recorded programs.

However, sources claim the service would not be used with live television.
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Old 19-03-2015, 10:46   #179
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Re: The future for linear TV channels

Further evidence of the shift in TV viewing.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/n...-industry.html

'While around two thirds of the total video market’s £2.24bn in annual revenues still come from owning physical discs, income from this area dropped 6.5pc in 2013 while digital video-on-demand grew 45pc, boosted by a 77pc jump in subscription services.

Video could soon be digitally dominant if it continues to follow the trajectory carved out by the music industry, which saw digital account for half of all music sales - totalling £513m - for the first time in 2014 as the physical music sector fell to less than half its value in 2008.'
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Old 19-03-2015, 11:02   #180
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Re: The future for linear TV channels

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Originally Posted by OLD BOY View Post
Further evidence of the shift in TV viewing.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/n...-industry.html

'While around two thirds of the total video market’s £2.24bn in annual revenues still come from owning physical discs, income from this area dropped 6.5pc in 2013 while digital video-on-demand grew 45pc, boosted by a 77pc jump in subscription services.

Video could soon be digitally dominant if it continues to follow the trajectory carved out by the music industry, which saw digital account for half of all music sales - totalling £513m - for the first time in 2014 as the physical music sector fell to less than half its value in 2008.'
Errr .... No .... That's evidence of the shift in *video* viewing, as the article you linked to clearly states.
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