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Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77, 102 & 797]
View Poll Results: Will you be opting out of the Virgin Ad Deal?
Yes, Definitely. 958 95.51%
No, I am quite happy to share my surfing habits with anyone. 45 4.49%
Voters: 1003. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-03-2008, 19:28   #751
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77 & 102]

Looks like the BT boys are getting a few answers - http://www.beta.bt.com/bta/forums/th...rt=60&tstart=0

This post caught my interest
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Liversage
IS WEBWISE BROWSER DEPENDENT?
• I sometimes use Safari as well as Firefox. Can the www.oix.net cookie be blocked in Safari?

• Is the communication and invitation dependant on using the BT/Yahoo! browser?
BT Webwise works with most major browsers, including Internet Explorer, Firefox, Netscape and Opera. Safari is not supported by the BT Webwise system and so Safari browsing will not pass through it.
Adam
mmmm so what browser doesn't play nice with phorm and where can i get it :P
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Old 07-03-2008, 19:28   #752
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77 & 102]

Mick is right and albeit this a highly emotive issue our desires will be best served by concentrating on the weaknesses in response and action by Phorm, it's CEO and agents acting on Phorm's behalf.

IMO having seen both the video interview and the transcript of the one on the Register, the CEO is pushing elements of responsibility towards the other side of the Chinese Wall which of course is the ISP's. There are a limited number of times either the CEO or his agents can keep repeating the same party line. There are two sides to this equation and if Phorm exhaust their ability to quell customer anger, the ISP management must respond.

Phorm are such an easy target given their history in a former guise that it would prove an enlightenment to see the logic of the ISP decision makers who allowed even the thought of this liaison to last more than milliseconds. The pressure must be kept on and progressively increased until the clamour for answers, hopefully from the press, forces ISP directors out of their bunkers and into a mode of open discussion. We can then decide whether as customers we wish to continue to subscribe and share-holders can decide whether the board of directors needs changes.

Phorm would not be of any concern to any of us if it wasn't because of ISP management decisions. I suspect that Phorm are hopelessly losing the battle for hearts and minds so I guess that the various ISP's management teams had better do something before the damage gets seriously out of control. I believe that once this course of action becomes common knowledge amongst all UK internet users, it has the potential to destroy ISP's.
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Old 07-03-2008, 19:32   #753
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77 & 102]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick View Post
I understand about the anger part - I am not impressed with the system either but at the same time I cannot sit back and watch people come on here - and post aggressive posts and demand answers. Everyone is entitled to have their say but I cannot stand to see rude or aggressive posting(s).

Those who work in call centres will know that if any customer gets aggressive when they are trying to give them information or help - the rep can terminate the call and they are much within their rights to do that - The same goes for the reps trying to give information on these boards - We might not like what they are saying but getting angry and getting all hot and bothered will solve nothing - I am actually getting sick of repeating myself on this one, shouting the odds doesn't get us what we want.
Thank you Mick I am sure they all understand this and the longer VM stay quiet on these boards while the Phorm techies come to post without answering all questions this will not improve the feeling customers have for VM now.

Phorm can only give so much some questions are more related to VM like why not an OPT-IN instead of OPT-OUT?

What does VM get out of selling us to Phorm?

Have VM worked out just how much revenue they could lose if customers decide to move to other ISPs rather than be forced onto this Phorm program?

With present day methods of scripting just how sure are VM that this system isn't hackable now or in the future?

Could this Phorm ever be caught out with the many online WORMS which can happen with almost any server thus allowing access to information?

Sometimes addresses are passed over MSN and other medias or web emails this Phorm will gather this information and could pick up an address or two?

Finally as I have decided I do not want to be apart of this Phorm and have already told VM over phone and by the VM webwise feedback in the news, I wil next be contacting DPA to see where I stand with regards to my Data not being allowed to be farmed, part farmed or even allowed onto any server that is connected with Phorm.
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Old 07-03-2008, 19:41   #754
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77 & 102]

I have no sympathy for any ISP that would destroy itself though a partnership with a company like Phorm. It’s an inherently bad idea to implement such a system and everyone that HAS’NT got a vested interest in it can see that.

Part of the reason why so many are getting angered with the responses they have received so far is because phorm play games with semantics to hide the reality. Still, I suppose it’s to be expected with their dubious chequered past as adware peddlers.
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Old 07-03-2008, 19:41   #755
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77 & 102]

as a change of pace
http://www.crainsnewyork.com/apps/pb...&rssfeed=rss01
Virgin Media names new chief exec

"Neil Berkett was the driving force behind the integration of Telewest Global, Inc. into NTL Inc.; which adopted the name Virgin after buying Richard Branson’s mobile-phone company.
...
"
well done Neil for getting the comfy chair full time, shame your also likely going to be remembered for allowing/aiding and abetting the growing Phorm scandal etc...
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Old 07-03-2008, 19:44   #756
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77 & 102]

Apologies if posted before, but there's a statement by ICO here...
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Old 07-03-2008, 20:01   #757
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77 & 102]

Another point that won't or can't be answered is can this be used for total net monitoring as i find it funny that phorm has ignored the US market where it seemed to be heading and has come to the UK after our government has made it clear it wants all net traffic monitored. Is that part of the extended functionality that phorm can offer the government in the future if it is already being in place in the UK. Until that last part is answered i will not expect a lot of help from the government or it's agency's on this issue. While a new direction on the topic it is something i would like answered as i believe it is what phorm will do in future that is the deciding factor in them coming to the UK at a time when the UK seems to be getting harder on internet user's and useage this is not a good place to be at the minute.
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Old 07-03-2008, 20:07   #758
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77 & 102]

Quote:
Originally Posted by none View Post
Looks like the BT boys are getting a few answers - http://www.beta.bt.com/bta/forums/th...rt=60&tstart=0

This post caught my interest

mmmm so what browser doesn't play nice with phorm and where can i get it :P
With Opera you can block all adverts on pages, refuse to acept cookies from websites, place websites into a blocked website list. You can even do site prefrences for each individual site weather to accept a cookie even set it to delete all new cookies when you close opera.

With all that is already about do we really need the spy in the camp.
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Old 07-03-2008, 20:14   #759
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77 & 102]

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhormUKtechteam View Post
80/20 Thinking is a consulting business founded and run by Managing Director Simon Davies, who is also a director of Privacy International, one of the leading privacy advocacy bodies. Phorm has retained 80/20 Thinking to conduct a Privacy Impact Assessment on its technologies, systems and policies and we will work with them on an ongoing basis throughout the year.
Right for me that's this PR show over - You've not stated why what you say is different to what the CEO states. You even come back with a copy and paste of the original answer from an article on the BBC website. You must be off your rocker if you think the people that are posting on this thread won't notice when you just cut out a paragraph from a news article and slap it up here as a well thought you and researched answer.

Even if we can't remember where we originally saw the quote we can use a search engine the spidering does has got much quicker you know.

This isn't PR this is a blunt attempt to grind down those that ask questions and shut people up.

I've been fairly open minded about this product but for me if you can't get your facts straight now what hope have when you have this system up and running.
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Old 07-03-2008, 20:25   #760
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77 & 102]

Quote:
Originally Posted by none View Post
Looks like the BT boys are getting a few answers - http://www.beta.bt.com/bta/forums/th...rt=60&tstart=0

This post caught my interest

mmmm so what browser doesn't play nice with phorm and where can i get it :P
The same thought occured to me as I read through the replies on the bbc site

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7283333.stm

"Q: And does the service ever modify information you receive via http that might not be a web-page, i.e. is it possible for it to accidentally break applications that rely on http for communication, especially if those applications work in a way that Phorm didn't anticipate?

A.We operate a whitelist of user-agents corresponding to major browsers (e.g. Firefox, IE, Opera). Other user-agents are ignored."

So, if I were to use something like Privoxy to alter the user-agent string in my http-headers to something obscure or even none-existent, would that stop Phorm from tracking me? Granted this may cause problems on some websites, but I can easily switch this on/off as required.

Still, the onus is yet again on the end user to find a way around the system, which is not how it should be.

On a similar note, also taken from the bbc article,

"Q: If two people use a shared computer - how will Phorm ensure that a surprise, e.g. a partner researching wedding venues, is not ruined when the other partner next uses the computer and is bombarded with adverts for dresses and rings?

A: Most people have a separate login if they are sharing a computer and they will therefore have a separate random number. But also, advertisers using our system can choose to show ads based on the page they are visiting, recently visited, or a longer term basis. Only the last of these would be affected if the computer and the login were share, so this scenario if possible but not that likely. If the person really wants to hide a surprise, they can switch webwise off!"

In other words, it's not Phorm's fault if this happens, but it's either the advertisers fault or *my* fault for not setting up seperate logins!
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Old 07-03-2008, 20:29   #761
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77 & 102]

Quote:
Originally Posted by popper View Post
as a change of pace
http://www.crainsnewyork.com/apps/pb...&rssfeed=rss01
Virgin Media names new chief exec

"Neil Berkett was the driving force behind the integration of Telewest Global, Inc. into NTL Inc.; which adopted the name Virgin after buying Richard Branson’s mobile-phone company.
...
"
well done Neil for getting the comfy chair full time, shame your also likely going to be remembered for allowing/aiding and abetting the growing Phorm scandal etc...
Nice piece on this at Bloomberg especially where a London based analyst states VM are really struggling, might be even more uphill now with the whole Phorm deal.
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Old 07-03-2008, 20:36   #762
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77 & 102]

Ok they really dont know there arses from there faces

Quote:
Q: Even if you do opt out your web traffic will still be intercepted and analysed, you just wont see the ads. Is this true?

A: No this is not true. If you opt out no data is passed from the ISP to Phorm. The ISP controls which data is passed to Phorm and its systems check for the presence of an opt-out cookie. Opting out means that you will not see relevant ads from the OIX (Open Internet Exchange - the platform developed by Phorm) and that none of your data is analysed. You will however continue to see untargeted ads, just as you do today.
So even though you opt out Virgin Media will still receive the data stream and will know Exactly what you are doing at any time.

So in my eyes the OPT OUT from this SPYWARE is no such thing. VIRGIN will still be able to track you every move. ?

Anything whats so bloody ever. Virgin Bloody Media
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Old 07-03-2008, 20:44   #763
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77 & 102]

I have yet to see a computer in friends or family members houses where multiple users of one computer have been set up for seperate user log-ins. Of course some people will have but most wouldn't have a clue where to start.

Unfortunately the "most people" is straight out of the political spin book which is always a convenient assumption but rarely true. This guy must really think we are all mugs but fails to realise that we have had a decade of spin training and can unravel it as fast as it is spoken
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Old 07-03-2008, 20:47   #764
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77 & 102]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Traduk View Post
we have had a decade of spin training and can unravel it as fast as it is spoken
Thats so true
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Old 07-03-2008, 21:04   #765
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Re: Virgin Media Phorm Webwise Adverts [Updated: See Post No. 1, 77 & 102]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Traduk View Post
I have yet to see a computer in friends or family members houses where multiple users of one computer have been set up for seperate user log-ins. Of course some people will have but most wouldn't have a clue where to start.
Mine is, it means my son has a restricted account and as a 5 year old clicking away cannot install anything accidently etc.
It is also often necessary if you use outlook / outlook express for your mail handling as you need to set up individual profiles for each user of the mail system, though these days with more people using web based email there is less of a reason to do this.
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