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[Update] Cyclist convicted of "wanton and furious driving"
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Old 21-09-2017, 14:57   #121
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Re: [Update] Cyclist convicted of "wanton and furious driving"

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Originally Posted by Kursk View Post
Yes, not only is the law inadequate, officialdom is also partly culpable for dereliction of duty to the public by failing to make proper provision for cycling segregation between motorised vehicles/bikes/pedestrians.

Prevention will always work better than arse-backwards 'cure'. We'll all be cyclists soon anyway
But haven't you said that cyclists don't have to use the cycle lanes when they are provided?
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Old 21-09-2017, 15:18   #122
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Re: [Update] Cyclist convicted of "wanton and furious driving"

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Originally Posted by OLD BOY View Post
Hardly dereliction of duty! This is an old country with creaking infrastructure that was put in place in a different age. Have you considered the cost of realising that dream?

The best hope we can have is that new developments should be required to aspire to this ideal and we will get there over time.
I don't regard it a dream; I regard it a necessity. The dereliction of duty lies in not moving with the times to accommodate the millions who now cycle not least to improve fitness levels and confront the obesity epidemic and pollution. Have you considered the cost of not realising that 'dream'? This is not something we should aspire to; it is something we should make happen.

Our old infrastructure could do with some furious and wanton improvement.

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But haven't you said that cyclists don't have to use the cycle lanes when they are provided?
And that is true. Paint on the roads does not constitute proper cycle lanes. The paint is ignored by motorists and often dangerous to cycle (gutters, accumulated material, pot holes, parked cars, poor maintenance etc).
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Old 21-09-2017, 16:29   #123
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Re: [Update] Cyclist convicted of "wanton and furious driving"

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Originally Posted by Kursk View Post
I don't regard it a dream; I regard it a necessity. The dereliction of duty lies in not moving with the times to accommodate the millions who now cycle not least to improve fitness levels and confront the obesity epidemic and pollution. Have you considered the cost of not realising that 'dream'? This is not something we should aspire to; it is something we should make happen.

Our old infrastructure could do with some furious and wanton improvement.


And that is true. Paint on the roads does not constitute proper cycle lanes. The paint is ignored by motorists and often dangerous to cycle (gutters, accumulated material, pot holes, parked cars, poor maintenance etc).
More cyclists on the roads will make no real difference to pollution, you are talking about very low figures here. It certainly won't pay for itself, or anywhere close.

It is a dream, a dream of a Kurskesque Utopia that will never happen. Cost is a big problem and given the current state of our infrastructure, let alone the economy, your 'solution' will not be realised.

If you want to pursue your dream against all the odds, you'd better start making a business case for it, which includes the small problem of where the money will come from.
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Old 21-09-2017, 17:42   #124
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Re: [Update] Cyclist convicted of "wanton and furious driving"

Sooner or later the law is going to catch up with our two wheeled miscreants:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41346237

It'll happen because they won't change their ways, will continue on in denial about the problems they cause, will continue taking liberties and will be responsible for an increasing number of serious accidents/fatalities on our roads. They'll whine on about dodgy car/van/lorry/bus/taxi drivers as usual whilst doing their very best to emulate the behaviour of the worst of those groups. Ultimately they'll be subject to the same laws and on the receiving end of the same punishments.
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Old 21-09-2017, 20:39   #125
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Re: [Update] Cyclist convicted of "wanton and furious driving"

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Originally Posted by OLD BOY View Post
More cyclists on the roads will make no real difference to pollution, you are talking about very low figures here. It certainly won't pay for itself, or anywhere close.

It is a dream, a dream of a Kurskesque Utopia that will never happen. Cost is a big problem and given the current state of our infrastructure, let alone the economy, your 'solution' will not be realised.

If you want to pursue your dream against all the odds, you'd better start making a business case for it, which includes the small problem of where the money will come from.
My 'solution' has not even been discussed. It is a solution without the cost implications you suggest because you're thinkng of an adaptation of the existing road network. So am I, but in a different way.

My solution involves compromise but much less cost because the infrastructure already exists: create cycle networks from exsting B roads, ratruns and streets not sutable for heavy traffic. This will segregate road users and be safer for learner cyclists/children. Cycle networks can serve schools and comprise dedicated inner city routes.

All that's needed is the willpower and signage and perhaps an extension of the resident permits system. It won't be without problems but then that's what happens when huge messes have to be resolved.

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Originally Posted by Osem View Post
Sooner or later the law is going to catch up with our two wheeled miscreants:.........
........ultimately they'll be subject to the same laws and on the receiving end of the same punishments.
I think you might find that 99.9% of cyclists already believe they are subject to, and observe, the same laws.
New law has, for example, hoplessly failed to impact upon mobile phone usage at the wheel. People who flout the law will flout the law; you'll still be stuck with millions of law-abiding irritants on the roads because motorists don't only object to cyclists who break the law, they object to all cyclists.
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Old 22-09-2017, 08:48   #126
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Re: [Update] Cyclist convicted of "wanton and furious driving"

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Originally Posted by Kursk View Post
My 'solution' has not even been discussed. It is a solution without the cost implications you suggest because you're thinkng of an adaptation of the existing road network. So am I, but in a different way.

My solution involves compromise but much less cost because the infrastructure already exists: create cycle networks from exsting B roads, ratruns and streets not sutable for heavy traffic. This will segregate road users and be safer for learner cyclists/children. Cycle networks can serve schools and comprise dedicated inner city routes.


All that's needed is the willpower and signage and perhaps an extension of the resident permits system. It won't be without problems but then that's what happens when huge messes have to be resolved.


I think you might find that 99.9% of cyclists already believe they are subject to, and observe, the same laws.
New law has, for example, hoplessly failed to impact upon mobile phone usage at the wheel. People who flout the law will flout the law; you'll still be stuck with millions of law-abiding irritants on the roads because motorists don't only object to cyclists who break the law, they object to all cyclists.
Ban cars from B roads? So cars would no longer be used in the countryside areas! How would the homes in the countryside get their deliveries? Indeed, how would people living in the country get about at all? Like they did a few centuries ago, I dare say! Are you actually hinting at Year Zero? The whole concept is full of holes and would not stand up to the smallest amount of scrutiny.

And that 99.9%! I am frequently driving and observe cyclists jumping red lights and cycling recklessly. If it was 99.9%, such occurrences would be notable exceptions rather than the norm. 9% is more like it.
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Old 22-09-2017, 12:37   #127
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Re: [Update] Cyclist convicted of "wanton and furious driving"

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Originally Posted by OLD BOY View Post
Ban cars from B roads? So cars would no longer be used in the countryside areas! How would the homes in the countryside get their deliveries? Indeed, how would people living in the country get about at all? Like they did a few centuries ago, I dare say! Are you actually hinting at Year Zero? The whole concept is full of holes and would not stand up to the smallest amount of scrutiny.

And that 99.9%! I am frequently driving and observe cyclists jumping red lights and cycling recklessly. If it was 99.9%, such occurrences would be notable exceptions rather than the norm. 9% is more like it.
You seem unwilling to countenance alternatives. The compromise is perhaps too great for you but change is inevitable and it is better to plan it than for it to occur randomly imho. Creating networks is not banning cars; it is more proactive network management of the forthcoming gridlock/obesity/pollution crises.

As for the percentage I agree it is not factual but was meant as a representative comment; in the same spirit, I'd say a very high percentage of motorists are ill-equipped to drive.

There are now millions of cyclists and I believe more would give it a go if cycling was safer. That needs something more radical than splashing paint around to bolt on cycle lanes as an afterthought.
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Old 22-09-2017, 12:41   #128
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Re: [Update] Cyclist convicted of "wanton and furious driving"

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Originally Posted by OLD BOY View Post
Ban cars from B roads? So cars would no longer be used in the countryside areas! How would the homes in the countryside get their deliveries? Indeed, how would people living in the country get about at all? Like they did a few centuries ago, I dare say! Are you actually hinting at Year Zero? The whole concept is full of holes and would not stand up to the smallest amount of scrutiny.

And that 99.9%! I am frequently driving and observe cyclists jumping red lights and cycling recklessly. If it was 99.9%, such occurrences would be notable exceptions rather than the norm. 9% is more like it.
What a terrific idea, can't think why we shouldn't do that, maybe TFL will...
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Old 22-09-2017, 13:08   #129
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Re: [Update] Cyclist convicted of "wanton and furious driving"

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Ban cars from B roads?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osem View Post
What a terrific idea, can't think why we shouldn't do that, maybe TFL will...
To clarify: creating networks from some B roads is not the same as banning cars from all B roads.

I suppose when we don't want to see something, we don't try. Sigh .

Besides:
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Anyone who lives in London knows that TFL is capable of almost anything.
Look out, it may happen.
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Old 22-09-2017, 13:56   #130
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Re: [Update] Cyclist convicted of "wanton and furious driving"

Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY View Post
Ban cars from B roads? So cars would no longer be used in the countryside areas! How would the homes in the countryside get their deliveries? Indeed, how would people living in the country get about at all? Like they did a few centuries ago, I dare say! Are you actually hinting at Year Zero? The whole concept is full of holes and would not stand up to the smallest amount of scrutiny.

And that 99.9%! I am frequently driving and observe cyclists jumping red lights and cycling recklessly. If it was 99.9%, such occurrences would be notable exceptions rather than the norm. 9% is more like it.
9% is being generous from what I see. Go to any busy junction with a large numbers of cyclists and see how many break the rules. It's not 1 in 10 or anything like that - riding on pavements, going through red lights, weaving dangerously in and out of traffic etc. etc. etc. We nearly got knocked over by a moron on his bike last weekend, he came up behind us on the pavement, gave no warning of his presence and it was only by chance that he didn't hit us. Our local area is plagued by youths on bikes who deliberately hold up the traffic, ride around on one wheel on and off the pavement, zigzag all over the road, try to catch lifts on passing busses and lots more. The fact is there's a large proportion of cyclists who don't obey the rules because their pathetic mindset is that they don't have to. They even like to boast about how they don't need insurance, can't be traced blah blah blah. The increasing amount of dashcam footage is proving it and that's what's going to force change upon these idiots. Sensible riders who don't take liberties and do have insurance for example have nothing to fear but the serial offenders most certainly will as a certain young idiot recently discovered. Punishment is the only way to educate some people.
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Last edited by Osem; 22-09-2017 at 14:03.
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Old 22-09-2017, 16:34   #131
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Re: [Update] Cyclist convicted of "wanton and furious driving"

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9% is being generous from what I see. Go to any busy junction with a large numbers of cyclists and see how many break the rules. It's not 1 in 10 or anything like that - riding on pavements, going through red lights, weaving dangerously in and out of traffic etc. etc. etc. We nearly got knocked over by a moron on his bike last weekend, he came up behind us on the pavement, gave no warning of his presence and it was only by chance that he didn't hit us. Our local area is plagued by youths on bikes who deliberately hold up the traffic, ride around on one wheel on and off the pavement, zigzag all over the road, try to catch lifts on passing busses and lots more. The fact is there's a large proportion of cyclists who don't obey the rules because their pathetic mindset is that they don't have to. They even like to boast about how they don't need insurance, can't be traced blah blah blah. The increasing amount of dashcam footage is proving it and that's what's going to force change upon these idiots. Sensible riders who don't take liberties and do have insurance for example have nothing to fear but the serial offenders most certainly will as a certain young idiot recently discovered. Punishment is the only way to educate some people.
You old curmudgeon In addition to not having insurance, nor an MOT, nor brakes, nor road tax, cyclists routinely terrify old people, rape young women, spit on the pavement and are planning to detonate a nuclear device in the Pacific.

The barstewards.
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Old 08-10-2017, 11:43   #132
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Re: [Update] Cyclist convicted of "wanton and furious driving"

Cyclists kill or maim two pedestrians every week, according to statistics

Over the past seven years there have been 25 pedestrians killed in accidents with bikes and another 700 seriously injured – meaning roughly two people every week are being killed or badly hurt in crashes with bikes.

The Department of Transport data, which does not state who is at fault in the accidents, shows three pedestrians were killed in crashes with bikes last year and another 112 were seriously injured.


http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/863...ans-every-week
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Old 11-10-2017, 13:40   #133
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Re: [Update] Cyclist convicted of "wanton and furious driving"

Another example of a cyclist that yells people he crashes into

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle...ned_buffer_f_m
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Old 11-10-2017, 13:58   #134
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Re: [Update] Cyclist convicted of "wanton and furious driving"

And another:

Quote:
A cyclist yob on an illegal brake-less bike who ploughed into a boy leaving him with life-changing injuries has been jailed.

Richard Manners was riding in a pedestrian zone when he hit Matteo Carlucci, four.

He was hurled into a bollard and got tangled in the front wheel.

The lad was left with a permanent dent in his head. He was rushed to hospital in agony after also breaking his arm, losing a tooth and being left covered in friction burns on his face.

Matteo was set to visit Legoland, in Windsor, Berks with his parents Davide Carlucci and Stella Watson on March 31 last year.

He was walking ahead of them when his mum saw Manners speeding towards her son and screamed: “Matteo, bike!” before watching the crash in horror.
Source
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Old 11-10-2017, 14:48   #135
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Re: [Update] Cyclist convicted of "wanton and furious driving"

Something just has to be done. I suggest cyclists have the same rules applied to them as those of mobility scooter drivers (who cause fatalities and accidents all the time).

So, just like mobility scooters which are always on the pavement causing mayhem, cyclists should have no licence, no MOT, no 'road tax', no registration plate and no insurance.
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