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Coming Soon to Virgin Media TV (2017)
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Old 07-10-2017, 16:28   #2911
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Re: Coming Soon to Virgin Media TV (2017)

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Originally Posted by muppetman11 View Post
Simple answer from Virgin and Sky should be ok we'll pay the fee if you agree to give up your prominent position you occupy on our EPG.
And pigs might fly MM.
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Old 07-10-2017, 16:34   #2912
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Re: Coming Soon to Virgin Media TV (2017)

If no agreement can be reached, Virgin (and possibly Sky) would surely be within their rights to reallocate 103 - that's a big long term risk to ITV.
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Old 07-10-2017, 16:49   #2913
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Re: Coming Soon to Virgin Media TV (2017)

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Originally Posted by Inactive Digital View Post
If no agreement can be reached, Virgin (and possibly Sky) would surely be within their rights to reallocate 103 - that's a big long term risk to ITV.
Agreed ITV wants it all it would seem.
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Old 07-10-2017, 18:07   #2914
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Re: Coming Soon to Virgin Media TV (2017)

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Originally Posted by Inactive Digital View Post
If no agreement can be reached, Virgin (and possibly Sky) would surely be within their rights to reallocate 103 - that's a big long term risk to ITV.
Thats just about all Sky can do as ITV is FTA on satellite, so its not as if Sky can get any income from forcing ITV onto a subs pack like VM can. Also where do BT TV & TalkTalk TV stand. They are hybrid services that piggyback on Freeview but ITV appears on their EPG like everyone else so why should they be treated differently to Sky.

Last edited by nodrogd; 07-10-2017 at 18:12.
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Old 07-10-2017, 20:46   #2915
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Re: Coming Soon to Virgin Media TV (2017)

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Originally Posted by nodrogd View Post
Thats just about all Sky can do as ITV is FTA on satellite, so its not as if Sky can get any income from forcing ITV onto a subs pack like VM can. Also where do BT TV & TalkTalk TV stand. They are hybrid services that piggyback on Freeview but ITV appears on their EPG like everyone else so why should they be treated differently to Sky.
Basically they can't charge BT or Talk Talk for the services that ITV is providing on Freeview, neither can they charge Sky for services ITV is providing on the satellite platform. ITV wants to charge Sky retransmission fees for their new internet delivered service.

The article in The Drum appears to be a rehash of the article: http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/m...hows-free.html - given a marketing perspective but omitting some of the points raised in the earlier article.
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Old 07-10-2017, 21:20   #2916
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Re: Coming Soon to Virgin Media TV (2017)

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Originally Posted by Inactive Digital View Post
If no agreement can be reached, Virgin (and possibly Sky) would surely be within their rights to reallocate 103 - that's a big long term risk to ITV.
I'm no expert on the 'due prominence' rules, but if ITV was taken off the EPG, then realised their mistake and came back, I think ITV would be within their rights to insist on a prominent slot (not necessarily 103).

106 would have been ideal!
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Old 07-10-2017, 21:52   #2917
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Re: Coming Soon to Virgin Media TV (2017)

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Originally Posted by RichardCoulter View Post
I'm no expert on the 'due prominence' rules, but if ITV was taken off the EPG, then realised their mistake and came back, I think ITV would be within their rights to insist on a prominent slot (not necessarily 103).

106 would have been ideal!
It's difficult to predict how the DCMS would enforce it, it's their rule after all. With local tv the requirement was for the most prominent, unallocated, slot to be made available. Freeview has followed that up by promoting the channels to better slots as they become available. Apparently not the case for VM, as they appear to have allocated 106 to E4. I would have thought that, following due prominence rules, the 106 slot should have been offered to local tv stations and / or other BBC channels before E4. That said, allocating it to local tv, in its present state, would be crazy.
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Old 07-10-2017, 22:22   #2918
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Re: Coming Soon to Virgin Media TV (2017)

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Originally Posted by jj20x View Post
It's difficult to predict how the DCMS would enforce it, it's their rule after all. With local tv the requirement was for the most prominent, unallocated, slot to be made available. Freeview has followed that up by promoting the channels to better slots as they become available. Apparently not the case for VM, as they appear to have allocated 106 to E4. I would have thought that, following due prominence rules, the 106 slot should have been offered to local tv stations and / or other BBC channels before E4. That said, allocating it to local tv, in its present state, would be crazy.
I wonder if VM get around some of the ruling by being a closed platform?
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Old 07-10-2017, 23:46   #2919
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Re: Coming Soon to Virgin Media TV (2017)

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Originally Posted by theone2k10 View Post
I wonder if VM get around some of the ruling by being a closed platform?
The whole point of due prominence is that it applies to all platforms. I suppose there is some scope for arguing that the PSBs already have due prominence. It's a difficult area.

Going back to the original consultation, ITV seem to want every option weighted in their favour. Even though the DCMS argued that zero net fees should be the outcome of the change to the copyright laws, ITV just ignores this and wants to impose a retransmission fee.

ITV appeared to be in favour of keeping the must carry regulations, whereby platform operators have to carry PSB channels. On the other hand ITV appeared to want greater flexibility for the must offer regulations, effectively allowing it to withhold PSB channels.

The DCMS didn't consider the negotiating scenarios assumed by the PSBs to be realistic.. and yet, here we are...

https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...eport___1_.pdf

Last edited by jj20x; 08-10-2017 at 00:25.
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Old 07-10-2017, 23:53   #2920
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Re: Coming Soon to Virgin Media TV (2017)

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Originally Posted by jj20x View Post
The whole point of due prominence is that it applies to all platforms. I suppose there is some scope for arguing that the PSBs already have due prominence. It's a difficult area.

Going back to the original consultation, ITV seem to want every option weighted in their favour. Even though the DCMS argued that zero net fees should be the outcome of the change to the copyright laws, ITV just ignores this and wants to impose a retransmission fee.

ITV appeared to be in favour of keeping the must carry regulations, whereby platform operators have to carry PSB channels. On the other hand ITV appeared to greater flexibility to the must offer regulations, effectively allowing it to withhold PSB channels.

The DCMS didn't consider the negotiating scenarios assumed by the PSBs to be realistic.. and yet, here we are...

https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...eport___1_.pdf
I think this will backfire on itv.
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Old 08-10-2017, 00:33   #2921
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Re: Coming Soon to Virgin Media TV (2017)

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Originally Posted by theone2k10 View Post
I think this will backfire on itv.
At the moment there is excess capacity on the local transport streams on VM. If ITV withhold their channel, it makes sense for VM to axe the ITV/C4 transport streams and move local C4 services over to join the BBC channels. Then, if ITV want to come back, charge them for reinstating the local infrastructure for ITV.

...and still refuse to pay a retransmission fee.
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Old 08-10-2017, 04:34   #2922
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Re: Coming Soon to Virgin Media TV (2017)

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Originally Posted by jj20x View Post
It's difficult to predict how the DCMS would enforce it, it's their rule after all. With local tv the requirement was for the most prominent, unallocated, slot to be made available. Freeview has followed that up by promoting the channels to better slots as they become available. Apparently not the case for VM, as they appear to have allocated 106 to E4. I would have thought that, following due prominence rules, the 106 slot should have been offered to local tv stations and / or other BBC channels before E4. That said, allocating it to local tv, in its present state, would be crazy.
Never thought about that, I suppose my local channel could have insisted on moving from 159 to 106. Are they all on 159 across the country?

I wonder if VM pre-empted this (or ITV wanting a decent slot upon any return) and so sold off 106 to the highest bidder.

I'm really surprised that they've got away with this unprecedented move, but the regulations regarding their EPG must have been met; it would be interesting to know how many bid for 106 and for how much.
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Old 08-10-2017, 10:22   #2923
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Re: Coming Soon to Virgin Media TV (2017)

I think the slot would still be allocated to ITV.

ITV were not on Sky digital for a long time - and selecting channel 103 just provided a banner telling you to use the TV to get ITV. I think 103 will stay reserved - but it is ITV's choice to use it.

If Sky and VM stick together - ITV are screwed.
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Originally Posted by Inactive Digital View Post
If no agreement can be reached, Virgin (and possibly Sky) would surely be within their rights to reallocate 103 - that's a big long term risk to ITV.


---------- Post added at 09:22 ---------- Previous post was at 09:20 ----------

I had always thought it was only the top five slots reserved on all platforms.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jj20x View Post
It's difficult to predict how the DCMS would enforce it, it's their rule after all. With local tv the requirement was for the most prominent, unallocated, slot to be made available. Freeview has followed that up by promoting the channels to better slots as they become available. Apparently not the case for VM, as they appear to have allocated 106 to E4. I would have thought that, following due prominence rules, the 106 slot should have been offered to local tv stations and / or other BBC channels before E4. That said, allocating it to local tv, in its present state, would be crazy.
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Old 08-10-2017, 14:49   #2924
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Re: Coming Soon to Virgin Media TV (2017)

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Originally Posted by ozsat View Post
I had always thought it was only the top five slots reserved on all platforms.
That's pretty much the result of the original PSB channels being the legacy analogue channels. Due prominence applies to other PSB channels but on the basis of allocating the best available channel rather than booting an existing occupant off the channel. All channels provided by the BBC and local tv operators are classed as PSB channels. For the commercial operators, only the legacy terrestrial channels have a PSB commitment. The question is, if a PSB channel voluntarily vacates its top five slot and the slot is subsequently reallocated, what happens if the PSB then decides it wants the original slot back? Reallocating 103 to another PSB channel, such as BBC Four, would be interesting. It's a pity there is no longer a linear BBC Three around to fill the gap.

Last edited by jj20x; 08-10-2017 at 16:10.
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Old 08-10-2017, 15:16   #2925
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Re: Coming Soon to Virgin Media TV (2017)

Yes, 'due prominence' doesn't necessarily mean the first five on the EPG.
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