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Old 12-10-2017, 21:34   #331
Damien
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Re: Brexit discussion

The vote means we have to Leave, what takes it's place is up to everyone. In the future what can be done by democracy and be undone by democracy. We joined the EU, we're leaving the EU, we can later vote to enter new arrangements or whatever.
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Old 12-10-2017, 21:58   #332
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Re: Brexit discussion

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Originally Posted by Damien View Post
The vote means we have to Leave, what takes it's place is up to everyone. In the future what can be done by democracy and be undone by democracy. We joined the EU, we're leaving the EU, we can later vote to enter new arrangements or whatever.
Indeed. Once we've left the whole thing.
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Old 12-10-2017, 22:09   #333
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Re: Brexit discussion

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Originally Posted by Damien View Post
The vote means we have to Leave, what takes it's place is up to everyone. In the future what can be done by democracy and be undone by democracy. We joined the EU, we're leaving the EU, we can later vote to enter new arrangements or whatever.
Equally we can vote not to. It depends on what the future brings.
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Old 12-10-2017, 22:13   #334
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Re: Brexit discussion

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Originally Posted by pip08456 View Post
Equally we can vote not to. It depends on what the future brings.
Yeah but if we were to vote to go back in there'd need to be another vote after that just to make sure we all understood the question.

Maybe it could be the best of 3...

It looks like Keir Starmer's confused by it all anyway:

https://order-order.com/2017/10/12/s...lock-progress/

Ah well...
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Old 12-10-2017, 22:50   #335
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Re: Brexit discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien View Post
The vote means we have to Leave, what takes it's place is up to everyone. In the future what can be done by democracy and be undone by democracy. We joined the EU, we're leaving the EU, we can later vote to enter new arrangements or whatever.
That's part of the issue, there are hard line remainers wanting to keep one foot in the door, by staying in the single market and customs union and this is not acceptable at all because this is not considered leaving.

Sure, if it all goes tits up, then we choose to have another vote down the road and decide to rejoin, if that is what democracy decides. I would still vote to remain out of it, I do not like being associated in with corrupted entities and the EU is just this, it's proven this over it's lack of input with Spain and Catalonia.
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Old 13-10-2017, 05:20   #336
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Re: Brexit discussion

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Originally Posted by Ramrod View Post
That really doesn't matter. Leave (as we were repeatedly told) means leave
Of course it does but he or she who puts their faith in politicians might be pretty disappointed at the end of the day.
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Old 13-10-2017, 09:17   #337
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Re: Brexit discussion

Quote:
Nearly three quarters of Brits believe Theresa May should walk away from Brexit talks if presented with a ‘bad deal’.

A snap poll yesterday revealed 74 per cent think No Deal is better than accepting punishment from EU chiefs.

And the Sky News survey showed support for playing hardball is almost as high among 18 to 34 year-olds as over 55 years.

Former UKIP MP and staunch Brexiteer Douglas Carswell said: “Seems No Deal would be preferred by a big majority.
Source

Looks like the EU is doing the Brexiteers work for them.
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Old 13-10-2017, 09:48   #338
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Re: Brexit discussion

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Originally Posted by heero_yuy View Post
Source

Looks like the EU is doing the Brexiteers work for them.
As always it depends on how the question is phrased, on how it's answered. Usually determined by whoever commissioned the survey to get the headline they want. If it was phrased, would you prefer no deal if it made you £11,500 worse off ? (which is the estimate), then you might get a different answer.

http://metro.co.uk/2017/10/11/hard-b...ssion-6994076/

Last edited by Mr K; 13-10-2017 at 09:55.
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Old 13-10-2017, 09:56   #339
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Re: Brexit discussion

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Originally Posted by Mr K View Post
As always it depends on how the question is phrased, on how it's answered. Usually determined by whoever commissioned the survey to get the headline they want. If it was phrased, would you prefer no deal if it made you £11,500 worse off ? (which is the estimate), then you might get a different answer.
Exactly as it would be nice if it was carried out by a independent source who have not got a bias one or tother.
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Old 13-10-2017, 10:34   #340
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Re: Brexit discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K View Post
As always it depends on how the question is phrased, on how it's answered. Usually determined by whoever commissioned the survey to get the headline they want. If it was phrased, would you prefer no deal if it made you £11,500 worse off ? (which is the estimate), then you might get a different answer.

http://metro.co.uk/2017/10/11/hard-b...ssion-6994076/
Ah, the use of the average wage to come up with a figure. Forget the average wage includes the high flyers earning over £250,000 a year quite a few of which earn over £100.000.000.
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Old 13-10-2017, 11:03   #341
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Re: Brexit discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr K View Post
As always it depends on how the question is phrased, on how it's answered. Usually determined by whoever commissioned the survey to get the headline they want. If it was phrased, would you prefer no deal if it made you £11,500 worse off ? (which is the estimate), then you might get a different answer.
Of course that question has enormous built in assumptions and bias.

Any how here's what the poll asked:




Sky_Poll.JPG
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Old 13-10-2017, 11:46   #342
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Re: Brexit discussion

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Originally Posted by heero_yuy View Post
Of course that question has enormous built in assumptions and bias.

Any how here's what the poll asked:




Attachment 27108
Still think that's very biased. Implying you want a 'bad deal' makes you look a numpty, which people don't like.
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Old 13-10-2017, 12:05   #343
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Re: Brexit discussion

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Originally Posted by Mr K View Post
Still think that's very biased. Implying you want a 'bad deal' makes you look a numpty, which people don't like.
Enough of the sanctimonious name calling.
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Old 13-10-2017, 12:38   #344
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Re: Brexit discussion

I think the question is a bit meaningless without having 'deal' and 'no deal' specified. Looking at the press there is an assumption things will continue as they are without any deal but it would mean trade defaulting to WTO rules at the very least. Customs check on NI Border? Chaos in Dover/Calais ETC.

It's also hard to define what is a 'bad deal'
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Old 13-10-2017, 13:23   #345
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Re: Brexit discussion

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Originally Posted by Mick View Post
Enough of the sanctimonious name calling.
As you well know Mick, the word 'numpty', was referring to anybody responding to this survey might feel about themselves, if they said they wanted a 'bad deal'. Not directed at anybody on this thread.
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