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Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.
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Old 12-10-2016, 17:04   #46
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Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

Yes they did Den but they were classed as private and didn't have access to the patients full NHS information I'm on about the NHS officially handling it rather then occasional piecemeal private involvement.
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Old 12-10-2016, 19:35   #47
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Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

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Originally Posted by Taf View Post
The promised callback did not happen.....
A call came at 1:40 to say that someone would call me at 5pm. It is now 5:08pm.

---------- Post added at 18:35 ---------- Previous post was at 17:09 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taf View Post
A call came at 1:40 to say that someone would call me at 5pm. It is now 5:08pm.
Finally got the call at 5:40. Now the wait for the huge assessment form...
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Old 12-10-2016, 19:38   #48
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Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taf View Post
A call came at 1:40 to say that someone would call me at 5pm. It is now 5:08pm.

---------- Post added at 18:35 ---------- Previous post was at 17:09 ----------



Finally got the call at 5:40. Now the wait for the huge assessment form...
It can't be worse than the DLA forms can it?
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Old 12-10-2016, 19:39   #49
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Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

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Originally Posted by Hugh View Post
That statement is a sub-optimal interpretation of actuality - Local Government employees don't redeploy to the Civil Service.

How can someone from one employer doing a certain job be redeployed to another organisation which doesn't do that same job?
Talks with management and unions were attempted to ensure that Housing Benefit Officers would either be redeployed within their own local authority or transfer to the DWP to process Universal Credit- in particular cases requiring the housing cost element, which makes them more complicated to process.

This was not agreed, so over the past few years Housing Benefit staff have been looking for other jobs to ensure that they don't become unemployed. The net result is that the system is now being run without the experience of former members of staff with years of experience, some going back to the 1970's.

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Originally Posted by RizzyKing View Post
Yes they did Den but they were classed as private and didn't have access to the patients full NHS information I'm on about the NHS officially handling it rather then occasional piecemeal private involvement.
Wasn't the NHS computerised patient records system supposed to allow the DWP to have access to patient records?? Think this has been scrapped though?? There were many people unhappy about civil servants having access to very personal & private information, I remember a campaign urging people who objected to this to refuse consent for their records to be used in this way.

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Originally Posted by Taf View Post
A call came at 1:40 to say that someone would call me at 5pm. It is now 5:08pm.
I have been involved in the social policy side of the Social Security system since the 1980's and have never known the system to be in such a mess.

Badly thought out reforms based on political dogma, reductions in staff, apalling IT systems, letting inexperienced staff go, privatising various functions where the only motivator is profit etc have all taken their toll.

Cameron's Government have a lot to answer for.

Did you know that, depending on where they are in the system, a disabled person may be on one of several benefits with different regulations?

Incapacity Benefit & Income Support should have been abolished by now, but some disabled people are still on these benefits, as well as Contribution Based ESA, Income Based ESA, Universal Credit.

We heard of one case where someone is still on Severe Disablement Allowance, some are on DLA, some are on PIP, it's a really confusing farce for everybody concerned.
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Old 12-10-2016, 19:45   #50
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Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

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Originally Posted by Osem View Post
It can't be worse than the DLA forms can it?
From what l hear the answer to that would be yes.
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Old 12-10-2016, 20:38   #51
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Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

Quote:
The DWP’s estimates are that, once all current working age DLA recipients who have been
reassessed for PIP:
 29% will have had their award increased
 15% will remain unchanged
 29% will have had their award decreased
 26% will have no award at all
This means that the DWP expect 55% of all current working age DLA claimants to be worse off under PIP
http://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/ima...y15_sample.pdf

---------- Post added at 19:38 ---------- Previous post was at 19:33 ----------

The PIP form I will shortly have to complete. No wonder I despair some days.. well a lot of days actually....

https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...s-you-form.pdf
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Old 13-10-2016, 12:37   #52
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Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

Yes the DWP had access to patient information but the private companies that carried out the assessments never officially had access. Atos were an horrendous company but the faults weren't all theirs the DWP deserved far more criticism then it received and should have been bought to task over some of their official policy's that they themselves broke in back room meetings and unofficial demands made on atos.

The very least that should be done is qualified people with at least a passing familiarity of the medical problems the claimant being assessed has should be required and by qualified i mean professionally medical not the 25 hours of training that allowed medical receptionists to become assessor's.
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Old 13-10-2016, 12:42   #53
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Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

@ Den - I haven't seen the DLA forms for a while but the PIP one looks very much the same to me at first glance anyway.

I'm sure Taf will give us his insight once he's filled it out. I'd certainly be interested to know what he thinks. My impression is that the new system is not so much geared towards physical disabilities and that may suit Taf's situation with his twins very well. Fingers crossed he gets a good result!
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Old 13-10-2016, 13:01   #54
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Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

I honestly can't understand why filling out a form with information you have at your fingertips is regarded as so onerous/despairing. How else are the people who distribute money from the puplic purse supposed to do so with propriety?

It can't be more onerous than, say, chatting on internet forums .

Fingers crossed for a fair result for all claimants.
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Old 13-10-2016, 13:38   #55
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Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

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Originally Posted by Kursk View Post
I honestly can't understand why filling out a form with information you have at your fingertips is regarded as so onerous/despairing. How else are the people who distribute money from the puplic purse supposed to do so with propriety?

It can't be more onerous than, say, chatting on internet forums .

Fingers crossed for a fair result for all claimants.
Some cases will clearly be simpler than others. However, often you don't have the information at your fingertips - remember you may be being asked about events which happened many years ago relating to a child or other loved one. There's also the very real problem of accepting just how bad things are when you're trying to describe in detail all the ways in which, possibly, a variety of conditions affect your loved one and trying to identify and articulate clearly the many possible ways in which their disability affects their life and indeed your own (if you're still caring for that person, as we have been for over 20 years now). Often it's other people who can better see the extent to which your life has been affected because you gradually adapt your lives to the needs of the person you care for and lose sight of all the things you do on a daily basis to support the person concerned as well as all the things you can't/don't do anymore as a result.

Caring for someone with complex needs long term involves a roller coaster ride of emotions, fears, frustrations, doubts etc. which are really very difficult to confront at times. I know we worry terribly about Osem Jnr # 2's future and who's going to care for him when we can't. There are times when we feel we can't take any more and will have to put him into care and the truth is that, if we give into those feelings, that's where he will end up sooner rather than later at massive cost to the public purse. To an extent you often survive living in denial about the reality of your loved ones prospects and your daily life and I can tell you that filling out forms such as this, which bring into such stark focus the scale of those problems, is far from easy. In fact it's a most depressing and disheartening exercise which calls everything into question and creates a whole lot of additional stress and anxiety amongst all those involved. In our case, due to the extent of his problems, there's also always that terrible doubt and pressure about whether you're doing the best, whether you've explained properly, whether you've said enough, whether you've overlooked something important. Believe me, although it is a necessary process it can be a very onerous one which involves a lot of very difficult soul searching indeed...
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Old 13-10-2016, 13:52   #56
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Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

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Originally Posted by Osem View Post
Some cases will clearly be simpler than others. However, often you don't have the information at your fingertips - remember you may be being asked about events which happened many years ago relating to a child or other loved one. There's also the very real problem of accepting just how bad things are when you're trying to describe in detail all the ways in which, possibly, a variety of conditions affect your loved one and trying to identify and articulate clearly the many possible ways in which their disability affects their life and indeed your own (if you're still caring for that person, as we have been for over 20 years now). Often it's other people who can better see the extent to which your life has been affected because you gradually adapt your lives to the needs of the person you care for and lose sight of all the things you do on a daily basis to support the person concerned as well as all the things you can't/don't do anymore as a result.

Caring for someone with complex needs long term involves a roller coaster ride of emotions, fears, frustrations, doubts etc. which are really very difficult to confront at times. I know we worry terribly about Osem Jnr # 2's future and who's going to care for him when we can't. There are times when we feel we can't take any more and will have to put him into care and the truth is that, if we give into those feelings, that's where he will end up sooner rather than later at massive cost to the public purse. To an extent you often survive living in denial about the reality of your loved ones prospects and your daily life and I can tell you that filling out forms such as this, which bring into such stark focus the scale of those problems, is far from easy. In fact it's a most depressing and disheartening exercise which calls everything into question and creates a whole lot of additional stress and anxiety amongst all those involved. In our case, due to the extent of his problems, there's also always that terrible doubt and pressure about whether you're doing the best, whether you've explained properly, whether you've said enough, whether you've overlooked something important. Believe me, although it is a necessary process it can be a very onerous one which involves a lot of very difficult soul searching indeed...
Understood. Thank you.
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Old 13-10-2016, 14:26   #57
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Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

Many departments read claim forms looking for keywords or buzzwords. The new one with PIP was "reliable" and it's variations. They were taken to task for this and so had to provide an exact definition of the word. In the end they just dropped it and it all flipped into jargonese.

"Be verbose in all your responses" I was advised. A long-winded explanation often contains more information that can swing your case. Even our twins' Paeds Consultant knew this (after being called in to give extra evidence in many cases). His input on the claim forms often required extra sheets of paper!

And, whilst you live day-to-day with a disabled person, or you are the disabled person, having to tell them every aspect of the problems really does make you feel down. You start to feel comfortable in your own skin, accepting your lot, and then you have to openly admit that you have problems. Quite depressing.

Last edited by Taf; 13-10-2016 at 14:47.
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Old 13-10-2016, 15:13   #58
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Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

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Originally Posted by Taf View Post
Many departments read claim forms looking for keywords or buzzwords. The new one with PIP was "reliable" and it's variations. They were taken to task for this and so had to provide an exact definition of the word. In the end they just dropped it and it all flipped into jargonese.

"Be verbose in all your responses" I was advised. A long-winded explanation often contains more information that can swing your case. Even our twins' Paeds Consultant knew this (after being called in to give extra evidence in many cases). His input on the claim forms often required extra sheets of paper!

And, whilst you live day-to-day with a disabled person, or you are the disabled person, having to tell them every aspect of the problems really does make you feel down. You start to feel comfortable in your own skin, accepting your lot, and then you have to openly admit that you have problems. Quite depressing.
Your taking the time to explain is appreciated thanks. The people who process the forms probably feel exhausted by the 'rules' too but this is the system. Accountability is probably another buzz word they hear day in day out.
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Old 13-10-2016, 16:04   #59
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Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

I know someone who was told they had to switch from DLA from which they got I think it was higher care and lower mobility allowance (or however that works) to PIP, where they scored 0 points and got nothing.


So far it has taken them since around February going through the appeals process and they finally get the final face to face appeal at the end of this month.


The DWP or whoever the body is has tried to appeal against this final appeal before it has even happened. They said things like "x recognised her name and stood up when called, therefor her concentration, memory and cognitive abilities are ok". All those things are documented by specialists and universally recognised as being part of her condition but have been ignored for general statements based on irrelevant observations by a general health practitioner, who I assume is a Doctor with no specialist knowledge of most conditions.


I feel for anyone having to go through this system that was simply a cost reduction exercise for the Tory government.
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Old 13-10-2016, 18:16   #60
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Re: Worrying news for ESA claimants converting from DLA to PIP.

I would advice anyone getting a face to face assessment for PIP to request a copy of their assessment report.
I would also advise them to get help from their local CAB or if they live in Scotland advice from Money Matters.
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