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Police to get tough on internet trolls.
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Old 19-09-2017, 20:14   #196
RichardCoulter
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The vast majority of MP's have been subject to online abuse (this has escalated since Brexit). In response, the Electoral Commission has suggested that they be barred from voting:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/sep/18/ban-social-media-trolls-from-voting-election-watchdog-suggests

Is this a good idea? It could be argued that MP's shouldn't have special treatment.

There has also been an increase in 'celebraties' being bullied online. For some time there has been agencies that track down the perpetrators of this behaviour, but there has been a TV series about how these agencies are stepping up a gear by employing ex MI5 personnel etc. They say that most trolls are male and that their behaviour is driven by narcissism.

What should they do with them when they've found them? I guess if they have a Narcissistic Personality Disorder, they should be directed towards getting help from mental health professionals. Anyone else doing it for their own amusement should face the full force of the law and punished accordingly.
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Old 12-10-2017, 03:14   #197
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Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.

The Government today announced plans to "make the internet a safer place" by cracking down on cyber bullying, trolling, humiliation and under age access to pornography in a talk today. Briefly from my notes:

Their aim is to make Britain "the safest place in the world to be online", with the internet enabling freedom in a safe environment.

Matt Hancock (Digital Minister) thanked everybody who took part in the consultation to build upon the safeguards built into the Digital Economy Act.

Measures to stop children viewing pornography start next April and they are talking to those that operate social media platforms and provide communication services (I assume this means forums, email providers etc) to deal with terrorist activities, child pornography, bullying, humiliation etc. They are now able to fine operators and are considering imposing a levy upon them to pay for the extra work involved.

It emerged that over half of adults say that they have seen something online that offended or upset them.

Last edited by RichardCoulter; 12-10-2017 at 03:22.
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Old 12-10-2017, 09:56   #198
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Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardCoulter View Post
They are now able to fine operators
A foriegn company, based abroad and whose servers are also abroad and access to cannot be blocked.I wonder how they propose to do that?

Typical nonsense from those who have no technical knowledge and still live in a pre internet age.

Quote:
It emerged that over half of adults say that they have seen something online that offended or upset them.
A meaningless statistic. If you asked adults if they'd ever been offended by something on TV, in the street or a pub you'd get a similar huge response.

It's like asking a school kid if they've ever been bullied in their entire time at school.
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Last edited by heero_yuy; 12-10-2017 at 09:56. Reason: Fixed quote
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Old 12-10-2017, 11:14   #199
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Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.

I'd wager that there's not a single normal adult on Earth who hasn't at some time hurt, abused or offended someone else, quite probably many people. What are we going to do about that?
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Old 12-10-2017, 16:29   #200
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Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.

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Originally Posted by Osem View Post
I'd wager that there's not a single normal adult on Earth who hasn't at some time hurt, abused or offended someone else, quite probably many people. What are we going to do about that?
You're probably right, but that doesn't mean it's acceptable or that nothing should be done about it.

---------- Post added at 14:29 ---------- Previous post was at 14:21 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by heero_yuy View Post
A foriegn company, based abroad and whose servers are also abroad and access to cannot be blocked.I wonder how they propose to do that?

Typical nonsense from those who have no technical knowledge and still live in a pre internet age
The talk did make some rather bold claims, I don't know much about the technical aspects, but at a guess maybe they will block any offending sites in the UK.

Dictatorships routinely do this, so I think it would be possible as most would be too afraid, lack the technical know how or simply can't be bothered going to the effort to circumvent the ban.
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Old 12-10-2017, 20:47   #201
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Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.

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Originally Posted by RichardCoulter View Post
You're probably right, but that doesn't mean it's acceptable or that nothing should be done about
Of course its acceptable. Its called "real life", the world isnt some fluffy clouds utopia in which everyone gets along and no one gets upset.


Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardCoulter View Post
The talk did make some rather bold claims, I don't know much about the technical aspects, but at a guess maybe they will block any offending sites in the UK.
Becasue that works so well.
(and demonstrates how clueless they really are).
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Old 12-10-2017, 21:09   #202
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Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.

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Originally Posted by Paul M View Post
Becasue that works so well.
(and demonstrates how clueless they really are).
Yeh, just look how successful they have been blocking the Pirate Bay, KickAss and other public torrent sites. There's that many proxies out there no-one has a problem.

Factor in the private sites and torrents are still alive and kicking.

BTW I wouldn't recommend anyone downloading torrents with out a decent VPN.
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Old 12-10-2017, 21:32   #203
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Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.

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Originally Posted by Paul M View Post
Of course its acceptable. Its called "real life", the world isnt some fluffy clouds utopia in which everyone gets along and no one gets upset.
Well, some people do believe in absolute freedom of speech where people should be allowed to say absolutely what they want, no matter who it upsets. Would you support this?

On the other side of the spectrum, there's places like North Korea where everyone's life is controlled by the state.

I myself believe (like most things in life) that a reasonable balance between the two should be sought.

People should have freedom of expression, but people should always think twice before saying or publishing something online or should face the consequences. The consequence may simply be a retraction and apology (most people don't go out to cause offence and are horrified to learn that they have done so). A recent example of this is the cricketer Ben Stokes who mocked a disabled child for his own amusement.

If they learn something from this, all good and well, but if they refuse or become more abusive, then more robust action is required to deal with their malicious behaviour.

I think that this country is eventually getting to the right balance.
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Old 12-10-2017, 21:53   #204
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Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardCoulter View Post
Well, some people do believe in absolute freedom of speech where people should be allowed to say absolutely what they want, no matter who it upsets. Would you support this?

On the other side of the spectrum, there's places like North Korea where everyone's life is controlled by the state.

I myself believe (like most things in life) that a reasonable balance between the two should be sought.

People should have freedom of expression, but people should always think twice before saying or publishing something online or should face the consequences. The consequence may simply be a retraction and apology (most people don't go out to cause offence and are horrified to learn that they have done so). A recent example of this is the cricketer Ben Stokes who mocked a disabled child for his own amusement.

If they learn something from this, all good and well, but if they refuse or become more abusive, then more robust action is required to deal with their malicious behaviour.

I think that this country is eventually getting to the right balance.
Generation snowflake weren't taught this.

Quote:
'Sticks and stones may break my bones but names will never hurt me' is a stock response to verbal bullying in school playgrounds throughout the English-speaking world. It sounds a little antiquated these days and has no doubt been superseded by more streetwise comebacks.

The earliest citation of it that I can find is from an American periodical with a largely black audience, The Christian Recorder, March 1862:

Remember the old adage, 'Sticks and stones will break my bones, but words will never harm me'. True courage consists in doing what is right, despite the jeers and sneers of our companions.

That reference to the expression as an 'old adage' in 1862 suggests and earlier coinage.
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Old 12-10-2017, 22:29   #205
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Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.

I've heard the saying, but think it's wrong.

Words can definitely hurt people, they can lead to mental health problems, lack of self worth etc. Plans are afoot to treat mental cruelty in the same way as physical assault.

I remember Maggy (as a former teacher) once posting that she had witnessed a child/children being destroyed by bullying (not vertabim). I think that it was because they were ginger.

I just don't get why people think that it's ok to hurt other people for their own amusement, usually because they are different in some way.
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Old 15-10-2017, 20:04   #206
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Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.

Todays Adrian Goldberg '5 Live Investigates' programme was about hate crimes against disabled children under 16.

Over the last three years there has been a 150% increase in disabled children being subject to bullying, torment and abuse simply for being different.

These hate crimes include verbal assaults, online trolling and even violent physical attacks. These relate to one off incidents or full on campaigns of intimidation and what binds them together is that they are motivated by hostility or prejudice towards a child's mental or physical disability.

If anyone would like to listen to it they can do so here:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b098mtqm

Be warned that it is heartbreaking in places.

The Home Office has asked HM Inspectorate of Constabulary has to ensure that all forms of hate crime are dealt with effectively and efficiently.

600,000 has been made available to deal specifically with online hate crime.

Last edited by RichardCoulter; 15-10-2017 at 20:10.
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Old 15-10-2017, 22:01   #207
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Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.

I got a police warning for a facebook comment after a complaint went into them. you'd have thought I went to their house and threatend to kill them had to do the all interview the lot.
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Old 16-10-2017, 12:53   #208
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Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.

There's only been one occasion where I was unhappy with a Facebook post and they agreed to take it down upon request, so no further action was taken.

A friend, however, had to involve the police when he was accused of being a paedophile because his partner was much younger than him (albeit over the age of consent).

At the moment individuals are responsible for what they post on the internet, but they are thinking of making site owners responsible instead.

I find this to be a little unfair (as long as they deal with any complaints properly) as they aren't responsible for what others say.

It would be an administrative nightmare to have to moderate every post beforehand. Maybe there are programs that can do it automatically, I don't know.
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Old 16-10-2017, 17:41   #209
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Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.

Sites that allow user contributions, like this forum, don't pre-moderate because if you do so you become liable for what is posted, as soon as it is posted. Reactively moderating content is legally safer because you then have a defence of sorts for the material being there in the first place, and a further defence if you deal with it in a fair and timely manner.

Sites are already at risk of being found to have committed libel by allowing defamatory content to be published, regardless of their moderation policy. In practice, however, it is very unlikely to succeed in court if there is a strong defence (rapid removal of the offending item, plus the opportunity to make amends, most likely in the form of a response by the one claiming to have been libelled).

There's also the fact that this is all dealt with as a civil matter and without the possibility of legal aid. It might be that they're thinking of making it a criminal matter so, in theory at least, it is easier to deal with as a prosecution, rather than as a civil defamation action. Whether the police and prosecutors have the time and resources for it is open to question however.
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Old 16-10-2017, 22:52   #210
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Re: Police to get tough on internet trolls.

That makes sense, I suppose if something is premoderated it by default is to be regarded as acceptable by the site involved.

Imagine if Facebook had to premoderate every comment
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