Home News Forum Articles
  Welcome back Join CF
You are here You are here: Home | Forum | KILL unwanted or disabled babies at birth as they are not a real person'

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most of the discussions, articles and other free features. By joining our Virgin Media community you will have full access to all discussions, be able to view and post threads, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload your own images/photos, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please join our community today.


Welcome to Cable Forum
Go Back   Cable Forum > General Discussion > Current Affairs

KILL unwanted or disabled babies at birth as they are not a real person'
Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 03-03-2012, 14:29   #46
Alan Fry
Permanently Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Radio Cairo, Hampstead, London
Services: 100 MB Broadband, XL Tv, Sky Sports and Movies HD, all other prenium channels, 3 TIVO, 2 V HD
Posts: 2,937
Alan Fry has upset the applecartAlan Fry has upset the applecartAlan Fry has upset the applecartAlan Fry has upset the applecartAlan Fry has upset the applecartAlan Fry has upset the applecartAlan Fry has upset the applecartAlan Fry has upset the applecartAlan Fry has upset the applecartAlan Fry has upset the applecartAlan Fry has upset the applecartAlan Fry has upset the applecartAlan Fry has upset the applecartAlan Fry has upset the applecartAlan Fry has upset the applecartAlan Fry has upset the applecartAlan Fry has upset the applecartAlan Fry has upset the applecartAlan Fry has upset the applecart
Re: KILL unwanted or disabled babies at birth as they are not a real person'

Quote:
Originally Posted by danielf View Post
Which was the argument under discussion. As for the other matter, not all forms of contraception are 100% safe. Also, weather you like it or not, abortions will take place, even if they were outlawed. Best make sure that those that do take place take place under safe conditions.
I agree that you 100% get rid of abortions, but they should be limited as much as you can. I say this not for relgious reasons, but for ethical and moral reasons!

But no one ask the child if they want to die!
Alan Fry is offline   Reply With Quote
Advertisement
Old 03-03-2012, 14:34   #47
danielf
cf.mega poser
 
danielf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 16,687
danielf has a golden auradanielf has a golden auradanielf has a golden aura
danielf has a golden auradanielf has a golden auradanielf has a golden auradanielf has a golden auradanielf has a golden auradanielf has a golden auradanielf has a golden auradanielf has a golden auradanielf has a golden auradanielf has a golden auradanielf has a golden auradanielf has a golden auradanielf has a golden auradanielf has a golden auradanielf has a golden aura
Re: KILL unwanted or disabled babies at birth as they are not a real person'

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Fry View Post
I agree that you 100% get rid of abortions, but they should be limited as much as you can. I say this not for relgious reasons, but for ethical and moral reasons!
Yes, and there are limits to when you can abort. So, there's nothing to discuss really, apart from the ridiculous suggestion that you should be able to 'abort' post-birth. I don't think anyone is taking that suggestion seriously.
__________________
Remember kids: We are blessed with a listening, caring government.
danielf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2012, 22:19   #48
Chrysalis
cf.mega poster
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Services: Gig1, Hub 5
Posts: 12,039
Chrysalis is cast in bronzeChrysalis is cast in bronzeChrysalis is cast in bronzeChrysalis is cast in bronze
Chrysalis is cast in bronze
Re: KILL unwanted or disabled babies at birth as they are not a real person'

The next step in the anti disabled hitler britian.
Chrysalis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2012, 22:46   #49
martyh
Guest
 
Location: newcastle upon tyne
Services: Sky Q silver bundle Sky Q 2TB box Sky Q mini box Sky fibre unlimited Sky Talk evenings and week
Posts: n/a
Re: KILL unwanted or disabled babies at birth as they are not a real person'

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrysalis View Post
The next step in the anti disabled hitler britian.
try reading ,it's not real ,it's not proposed and it never will be .It is a acedemic discussion about morals
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2012, 21:45   #50
Chrysalis
cf.mega poster
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Services: Gig1, Hub 5
Posts: 12,039
Chrysalis is cast in bronzeChrysalis is cast in bronzeChrysalis is cast in bronzeChrysalis is cast in bronze
Chrysalis is cast in bronze
Re: KILL unwanted or disabled babies at birth as they are not a real person'

I never said it was happening but its sad that some people are thinking about it.
Chrysalis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2012, 22:10   #51
Damien
Remoaner
Cable Forum Team
 
Damien's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 32,206
Damien has a lot of silver blingDamien has a lot of silver blingDamien has a lot of silver blingDamien has a lot of silver blingDamien has a lot of silver bling
Damien has a lot of silver blingDamien has a lot of silver blingDamien has a lot of silver blingDamien has a lot of silver blingDamien has a lot of silver blingDamien has a lot of silver blingDamien has a lot of silver blingDamien has a lot of silver blingDamien has a lot of silver blingDamien has a lot of silver blingDamien has a lot of silver bling
Re: KILL unwanted or disabled babies at birth as they are not a real person'

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrysalis View Post
I never said it was happening but its sad that some people are thinking about it.
They are not thinking of it as a proposed course of action, they are thinking of it as a starting point for a discussion.
Damien is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-03-2012, 22:14   #52
martyh
Guest
 
Location: newcastle upon tyne
Services: Sky Q silver bundle Sky Q 2TB box Sky Q mini box Sky fibre unlimited Sky Talk evenings and week
Posts: n/a
Re: KILL unwanted or disabled babies at birth as they are not a real person'

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrysalis View Post
I never said it was happening but its sad that some people are thinking about it.
well your statement implied otherwise but that's bye the bye .It is being discussed in the same context as discussing when to kill unborn babies which as we know takes place all the time and it is how we arrived at the current abortion laws .As distasteful as these type of subjects are they do get discussed and usually society's morality is the result
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2012, 00:38   #53
django47
Inactive
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 3
django47 is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: KILL unwanted or disabled babies at birth as they are not a real person'

I know that it's not a subject most people wish to really think about, let alone discuss openly. If they do, they will go with the majority and say things like it is evil.
The way I see it is if a child is born with a disability which will affect it all it's life, or is paralised from birth, or a deformity that belongs in a freak show, the person who would give the newly born child an injection sending him/her to sleep is doing a great act of kindness and should be praised for putting an end to a lifetime of misery and suffering. I honestly do not believe that a newly born human baby is aware of anything, it has no memory and that is what makes us who we are. We treat animals with greater kindness than we do with one of our own. We wouldn't let a cat or dog suffer, so why the hell do we make people suffer, even the ones who want to end their lives are not permitted to in the uk and those who help them because they can't stand by and watch a loved one suffer terrible pain, risks being labled a murderer.
I don't agree with puttiing down a healthy baby if it has nothing wrong with it, as for abortions, I can't say one way or another because I don't know enough about it to give an honest opinion. A person who is born with a disability or a deformity must suffer inside every day. Isn't it kinder to stop a life of misery before it starts.
django47 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2012, 00:53   #54
martyh
Guest
 
Location: newcastle upon tyne
Services: Sky Q silver bundle Sky Q 2TB box Sky Q mini box Sky fibre unlimited Sky Talk evenings and week
Posts: n/a
Re: KILL unwanted or disabled babies at birth as they are not a real person'

Quote:
Originally Posted by django47 View Post
I know that it's not a subject most people wish to really think about, let alone discuss openly. If they do, they will go with the majority and say things like it is evil.
The way I see it is if a child is born with a disability which will affect it all it's life, or is paralised from birth, or a deformity that belongs in a freak show, the person who would give the newly born child an injection sending him/her to sleep is doing a great act of kindness and should be praised for putting an end to a lifetime of misery and suffering. I honestly do not believe that a newly born human baby is aware of anything, it has no memory and that is what makes us who we are. We treat animals with greater kindness than we do with one of our own. We wouldn't let a cat or dog suffer, so why the hell do we make people suffer, even the ones who want to end their lives are not permitted to in the uk and those who help them because they can't stand by and watch a loved one suffer terrible pain, risks being labled a murderer.
I don't agree with puttiing down a healthy baby if it has nothing wrong with it, as for abortions, I can't say one way or another because I don't know enough about it to give an honest opinion. A person who is born with a disability or a deformity must suffer inside every day. Isn't it kinder to stop a life of misery before it starts.
A brave post django .I will refrain from commenting tonight as i am going to bed shortly but will do so tomorrow.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2012, 09:53   #55
Alan Fry
Permanently Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Radio Cairo, Hampstead, London
Services: 100 MB Broadband, XL Tv, Sky Sports and Movies HD, all other prenium channels, 3 TIVO, 2 V HD
Posts: 2,937
Alan Fry has upset the applecartAlan Fry has upset the applecartAlan Fry has upset the applecartAlan Fry has upset the applecartAlan Fry has upset the applecartAlan Fry has upset the applecartAlan Fry has upset the applecartAlan Fry has upset the applecartAlan Fry has upset the applecartAlan Fry has upset the applecartAlan Fry has upset the applecartAlan Fry has upset the applecartAlan Fry has upset the applecartAlan Fry has upset the applecartAlan Fry has upset the applecartAlan Fry has upset the applecartAlan Fry has upset the applecartAlan Fry has upset the applecartAlan Fry has upset the applecart
Re: KILL unwanted or disabled babies at birth as they are not a real person'

Quote:
Originally Posted by django47 View Post
I know that it's not a subject most people wish to really think about, let alone discuss openly. If they do, they will go with the majority and say things like it is evil.
The way I see it is if a child is born with a disability which will affect it all it's life, or is paralised from birth, or a deformity that belongs in a freak show, the person who would give the newly born child an injection sending him/her to sleep is doing a great act of kindness and should be praised for putting an end to a lifetime of misery and suffering. I honestly do not believe that a newly born human baby is aware of anything, it has no memory and that is what makes us who we are. We treat animals with greater kindness than we do with one of our own. We wouldn't let a cat or dog suffer, so why the hell do we make people suffer, even the ones who want to end their lives are not permitted to in the uk and those who help them because they can't stand by and watch a loved one suffer terrible pain, risks being labled a murderer.
I don't agree with puttiing down a healthy baby if it has nothing wrong with it, as for abortions, I can't say one way or another because I don't know enough about it to give an honest opinion. A person who is born with a disability or a deformity must suffer inside every day. Isn't it kinder to stop a life of misery before it starts.
What are you thinking; you think it is ok to kill a baby just because it is disabled, are you advocating that Steve Wonder, and many people who achieved great things (despite their disability) should be killed at birth!!!

No one asks the child if they want to die, or to be aborted, we all suffer bad things in life, some are worse than others, but we should not just kill ourselves and others. Despite this I understand what you mean, but I do not agree with you on this!!!

As for animals, no one asks them if they want to be “put down”
Alan Fry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2012, 12:17   #56
mertle
Inactive
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,134
mertle has a fine set of Quadsmertle has a fine set of Quadsmertle has a fine set of Quadsmertle has a fine set of Quadsmertle has a fine set of Quadsmertle has a fine set of Quadsmertle has a fine set of Quadsmertle has a fine set of Quadsmertle has a fine set of Quadsmertle has a fine set of Quadsmertle has a fine set of Quadsmertle has a fine set of Quadsmertle has a fine set of Quadsmertle has a fine set of Quads
Re: KILL unwanted or disabled babies at birth as they are not a real person'

It is thought provoking subject personally should not be upto the parents. Parants should however get full support for disabled children. Money and profesional help to look after them 24 hours a day. It is grey area if they suffering really badly no person should endure suffering but I feel it should be the individual right if they want to live or die. Which means disabled if they wish should be able to goto arbitory ask to end there life if they in such pain/suffering. It should not be state/parents wish a child should be allowed to make his or her own decision too.

Now thats thought provoking at what age would we say they have the right to decide.

I dont agree with abortion on medical advice it likely to be disabled anybody read previous thread will understand why.

If you dont want the child then fine not against it on grounds you made error cant afford to have a child abort in normal weeks termination. But it should never be due to doc thinks it will be disabled or born disabled. Infact question should parents be told but very grey area though but would in my thoughts stop rash thinking. Howver if there full financial medical/carer support might allay fears for those parents who fear the future would rather abort..
mertle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2012, 12:31   #57
RizzyKing
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: KILL unwanted or disabled babies at birth as they are not a real person'

Discussions all too often are the slippery slopew to action or policy and thats my main objection to debates of this kind also the question of where to draw the line cannot ever be solved to everyones satisfaction we know that no number of further debates is going to alter that. For me it's a slippery slope of another kind we all know superficial people out there who if they were able to abort because of the smallest defect they would and debates like this empower people like that in a tiny way it justifys their way of thinking.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2012, 13:01   #58
mertle
Inactive
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,134
mertle has a fine set of Quadsmertle has a fine set of Quadsmertle has a fine set of Quadsmertle has a fine set of Quadsmertle has a fine set of Quadsmertle has a fine set of Quadsmertle has a fine set of Quadsmertle has a fine set of Quadsmertle has a fine set of Quadsmertle has a fine set of Quadsmertle has a fine set of Quadsmertle has a fine set of Quadsmertle has a fine set of Quadsmertle has a fine set of Quads
Re: KILL unwanted or disabled babies at birth as they are not a real person'

Quote:
Originally Posted by RizzyKing View Post
Discussions all too often are the slippery slopew to action or policy and thats my main objection to debates of this kind also the question of where to draw the line cannot ever be solved to everyones satisfaction we know that no number of further debates is going to alter that. For me it's a slippery slope of another kind we all know superficial people out there who if they were able to abort because of the smallest defect they would and debates like this empower people like that in a tiny way it justifys their way of thinking.
agreed how the debate welfare alone started now its policy. Its a way to find out national opinion.

Like I said it should not be third party or even parents decision it should be that person alone decision. Until they can make the decision they should be able to grow from baby to day they can decide. Now there is those who cant make that decision due to the disibilty or you cannot gage even what pain they suffering that I cant decide. It would be calious either way. problem I have is mistakes are made.

There been cases of people who been coma been told they brain dead yet come out of it.

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/358209...ronounced-doa/

So the question is can you trust what is being told is right for your loved ones. this man they was going to pull the plug.

http://articles.nydailynews.com/2011...markable-story
mertle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2012, 13:54   #59
Chris
Trollsplatter
Cable Forum Team
 
Chris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: North of Watford
Services: Humane elimination of all common Internet pests
Posts: 36,870
Chris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden aura
Chris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden auraChris has a golden aura
Re: KILL unwanted or disabled babies at birth as they are not a real person'

Quote:
Originally Posted by danielf View Post
Yes, and there are limits to when you can abort. So, there's nothing to discuss really, apart from the ridiculous suggestion that you should be able to 'abort' post-birth. I don't think anyone is taking that suggestion seriously.
Actually, there's plenty to discuss precisely because the original suggestion was not supposed to be taken seriously - or, at least, it wasn't supposed to be the start of a campaign for a change in policy on abortion. So far as I can see, it was a theoretical, academic discussion designed to focus thought on the ethics of abortion and the definition of personhood. At the heart of it was the argument that by a common and widely accepted definition of personhood, post-natal abortion is logically just as ethical as pre-natal abortion.

If you offer moral and logical reasons why abortion should every be acceptable under any circumstances, then you should have morally and logically consistent reasons why you draw the time limit where you do.

---------- Post added at 12:54 ---------- Previous post was at 12:52 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by danielf View Post
The counter argument would take the perspective of the woman involved. She is not responsible for the sins of her child's father either. Why should she have to carry his child?
The child and the mother both figure in this equation. Which is worse: killing a child or counselling a victim of crime?
Chris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2012, 14:05   #60
danielf
cf.mega poser
 
danielf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 16,687
danielf has a golden auradanielf has a golden auradanielf has a golden aura
danielf has a golden auradanielf has a golden auradanielf has a golden auradanielf has a golden auradanielf has a golden auradanielf has a golden auradanielf has a golden auradanielf has a golden auradanielf has a golden auradanielf has a golden auradanielf has a golden auradanielf has a golden auradanielf has a golden auradanielf has a golden auradanielf has a golden aura
Re: KILL unwanted or disabled babies at birth as they are not a real person'

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris View Post
Actually, there's plenty to discuss precisely because the original suggestion was not supposed to be taken seriously - or, at least, it wasn't supposed to be the start of a campaign for a change in policy on abortion. So far as I can see, it was a theoretical, academic discussion designed to focus thought on the ethics of abortion and the definition of personhood. At the heart of it was the argument that by a common and widely accepted definition of personhood, post-natal abortion is logically just as ethical as pre-natal abortion.

If you offer moral and logical reasons why abortion should every be acceptable under any circumstances, then you should have morally and logically consistent reasons why you draw the time limit where you do.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but current 'cutoffs' for abortion are not set according to a definition of personhood but rather on viability of existence outside the womb?


Quote:
The child and the mother both figure in this equation. Which is worse: killing a child or counselling a victim of crime?
That is a highly subjective question, and the 'obvious' answer depends very much on the semantics of how the question is posed. Suffice to say though, that at short notice, my sympathies are firmly with the mother.
__________________
Remember kids: We are blessed with a listening, caring government.
danielf is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 22:00.


Server: osmium.zmnt.uk
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.