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US: Violent clashes Charlottesville
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Old 14-08-2017, 22:01   #46
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Re: US: Violent clashes Charlottesville

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Originally Posted by 1andrew1 View Post
The important two words are in post 40 "by name". If he'd done this in a timely fashion, he wouldn't have been condemned by many people and he wouldn't have a resignation from Ken Frazier to contend with.
But Antifa and BLM were being just as bad.... are you saying we ignore these groups and allow them to do as they please ?

He gets condemned on a daily basis by the left and liberal media, so another day won't matter.
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Old 14-08-2017, 22:03   #47
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Re: US: Violent clashes Charlottesville

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Originally Posted by Mick View Post
But Antifa and BLM were being just as bad.... are you saying we ignore these groups and allow them to do as they please ?
They were not as bad as Neo-Nazis one of whom murdered someone. Jesus.
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Old 14-08-2017, 22:12   #48
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Re: US: Violent clashes Charlottesville

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Originally Posted by 1andrew1 View Post

Shocked by some of the flags. I thought these would be banned.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/...b090964297ba58
You're forgetting America's first amendment.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

---------- Post added at 21:12 ---------- Previous post was at 21:09 ----------

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Originally Posted by Damien View Post
They were not as bad as Neo-Nazis one of whom murdered someone. Jesus.
This does not distract from the fact that ALL the groups were being violent, you condemn them all, not just one. Not sure the need to add blasphemy either towards the end of your post.
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Old 14-08-2017, 22:18   #49
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Re: US: Violent clashes Charlottesville

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Originally Posted by Mick View Post
You're forgetting America's first amendment.
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.[COLOR="Silver"]
Fair point; it's shocking seeing those flags from Nazi days being paraded in 2017.

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Originally Posted by Mick View Post
But Antifa and BLM were being just as bad.... are you saying we ignore these groups and allow them to do as they please ?
He gets condemned on a daily basis by the left and liberal media, so another day won't matter.
Surely murder's worse than their protests and in an entirely different category of bad?
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Old 14-08-2017, 22:20   #50
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Re: US: Violent clashes Charlottesville

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Originally Posted by Damien View Post
They were not as bad as Neo-Nazis one of whom murdered someone. Jesus.
Won't be long until Antifa kill someone.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qKCl9NL1Cg
http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/201...y-trump-melee/
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Old 14-08-2017, 22:27   #51
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Re: US: Violent clashes Charlottesville

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 View Post
Fair point; it's shocking seeing those flags from Nazi days being paraded in 2017.


Surely murder's worse than their protests and in an entirely different category of bad?
Are you suggesting that the fascists set out that day to murder someone. And just so you know I'm not defending them at all here. I thought they were protesting ?

And yes those flags only deserve one place to be, kept in history.
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Old 14-08-2017, 23:26   #52
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Re: US: Violent clashes Charlottesville

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Originally Posted by Mick View Post
Are you suggesting that the fascists set out that day to murder someone. And just so you know I'm not defending them at all here. I thought they were protesting ?
One fascist has been arrested for murder but until the trial we won't know for sure but it's not looking good is it?
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Old 15-08-2017, 07:11   #53
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Re: US: Violent clashes Charlottesville

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 View Post
Good news is that Trump has finally condemned the white supremacists by name. Bad news is he's taken 48 hours to get round to it. Looks like it took the resignation of adviser Ken Frazier to shift him.
Welcomed but he should have done it earlier but better late then never.

---------- Post added at 06:11 ---------- Previous post was at 06:09 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by deadite66 View Post
The problem the media had with Trumps statement is he condemned the far left as well.
The left and right are as bad as each other IMO and the sooner some realise that the better instead of divorcing themselves from reality..
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Old 15-08-2017, 09:28   #54
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Re: US: Violent clashes Charlottesville

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Originally Posted by denphone View Post
Welcomed but he should have done it earlier but better late then never.

---------- Post added at 06:11 ---------- Previous post was at 06:09 ----------



The left and right are as bad as each other IMO and the sooner some realise that the better instead of divorcing themselves from reality..
Could you point out where, during this march, the 'left' had around 150 people walking around with body armour and semi-automatic rifles?

Where, during this march, 'the left' were carrying flags (swastikas) and repeating slogans (Blood and Soil) from a discredited political philosophy that resulted in 'The Final Solution'?

Where, during this march, 'the left' drove a car deliberately into a crowd killing 1 and injuring 19 others?
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Old 15-08-2017, 09:34   #55
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Re: US: Violent clashes Charlottesville

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Originally Posted by Hugh View Post
Could you point out where, during this march, the 'left' had around 150 people walking around with body armour and semi-automatic rifles?

Where, during this march, 'the left' were carrying flags (swastikas) and repeating slogans (Blood and Soil) from a discredited political philosophy that resulted in 'The Final Solution'?

Where, during this march, 'the left' drove a car deliberately into a crowd killing 1 and injuring 19 others?
l am talking about the left and right in general in wider society as that was the point l was making in that the extremes of left and right are as bad as each other.
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Old 15-08-2017, 10:22   #56
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Re: US: Violent clashes Charlottesville

The left have had incidents of violence and you can look at obstinately left-wing governments in Venezuela to see plenty of things that should also be unequivocally condemned. Corbyn was rightfully criticised for this attempts to portray an oppressive government in Venezuela as equal to the people protesting them even though it's true that the opposition seem to have committed questionable acts as well. That is because one side was so clearly worse that it's wrong to draw equivalence between them. We rarely look back on WW2 and say the French Resistance were as bad as the Nazis they were resisting.

The same is true here. There should be apologism or deflection from the fact that there was a Neo-nazi rally. They were not as bad as each other at the weekend. There was one group that were literal Nazis and that should be taken seriously. Someone was killed, it seems, by one of these Nazis. This wasn't a ambiguous alt-right group that object to being called Nazis either. They were proud Nazis waving Nazi flags and quoting Nazis slogans. One reason I would suggest they're so bold is because the average resistance to them isn't as strong which is shown by a President reluctant to single them out for special rebuke.

This isn't about left vs right. It's about Nazis vs everyone else. If there was a pro-ISIS march that resulted in a death we wouldn't concern ourselves with questioning those who opposed them.

---------- Post added at 09:22 ---------- Previous post was at 08:51 ----------

And to highlight that comparison Illinois Senate have passed a bill calling for Neo-Nazis to be classed as a terrorist group: http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...ion-story.html
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Old 15-08-2017, 11:11   #57
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Re: US: Violent clashes Charlottesville

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh View Post
Could you point out where, during this march, the 'left' had around 150 people walking around with body armour and semi-automatic rifles?

Where, during this march, 'the left' were carrying flags (swastikas) and repeating slogans (Blood and Soil) from a discredited political philosophy that resulted in 'The Final Solution'?

Where, during this march, 'the left' drove a car deliberately into a crowd killing 1 and injuring 19 others?
Very good points Hugh. 'They're all as bad as each other other' cop out, which the Donald initially used, is a lazy/deflecting response to avoid pointing the finger at the real culprits.
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Old 15-08-2017, 11:29   #58
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Re: US: Violent clashes Charlottesville

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Originally Posted by Mr K View Post
Very good points Hugh. 'They're all as bad as each other other' cop out, which the Donald initially used, is a lazy/deflecting response to avoid pointing the finger at the real culprits.
The left wing rent-a-mob rabble who are intent on shouting down anybody who they disagree with?
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Old 15-08-2017, 11:35   #59
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Re: US: Violent clashes Charlottesville

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Originally Posted by heero_yuy View Post
The left wing rent-a-mob rabble who are intent on shouting down anybody who they disagree with?
Is that how you are classifying the people that were peacefully protesting against armed Nazi's in Charlottseville ?

Of course there are incidents extreme left and right wing trouble, but that shouldn't be used to ignore what happened there, or to excuse the people responsible.
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Old 15-08-2017, 11:41   #60
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Re: US: Violent clashes Charlottesville

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Originally Posted by heero_yuy View Post
The left wing rent-a-mob rabble who are intent on shouting down anybody who they disagree with?
You think they're responsible for the Neo-Nazi rally and someone getting murdered?

No. The people responsible are those who took part and organised it. The person who ran people over is responsible , not those who got hit.

Last edited by Damien; 15-08-2017 at 11:46.
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