Home News Forum Articles
  Welcome back Join CF
You are here You are here: Home | Forum | [Updated] New petrol & diesel car sales banned from 2030

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most of the discussions, articles and other free features. By joining our Virgin Media community you will have full access to all discussions, be able to view and post threads, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload your own images/photos, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please join our community today.


Welcome to Cable Forum
Go Back   Cable Forum > General Discussion > Current Affairs

[Updated] New petrol & diesel car sales banned from 2030
Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 29-07-2017, 18:07   #166
OLD BOY
Rise above the players
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Wokingham
Services: 2 V6 boxes with 360 software, Now, ITVX, Amazon, Netflix, Lionsgate+, Apple+, Disney+, Paramount +,
Posts: 14,569
OLD BOY is cast in bronzeOLD BOY is cast in bronzeOLD BOY is cast in bronzeOLD BOY is cast in bronze
OLD BOY is cast in bronzeOLD BOY is cast in bronzeOLD BOY is cast in bronzeOLD BOY is cast in bronzeOLD BOY is cast in bronzeOLD BOY is cast in bronzeOLD BOY is cast in bronzeOLD BOY is cast in bronzeOLD BOY is cast in bronzeOLD BOY is cast in bronzeOLD BOY is cast in bronzeOLD BOY is cast in bronzeOLD BOY is cast in bronzeOLD BOY is cast in bronzeOLD BOY is cast in bronzeOLD BOY is cast in bronzeOLD BOY is cast in bronzeOLD BOY is cast in bronze
Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.

Perhaps the answer to refuelling problem relating to electric cars is to change the battery that's running out for a charged one at the garage.

The garage would then re-charge the depleted battery and then it's ready for the next customer.

I can't see how else it is practical to manage the situation if you drive 60 odd miles a day as I used to do in my last job.
OLD BOY is offline   Reply With Quote
Advertisement
Old 29-07-2017, 18:19   #167
papa smurf
vox populi vox dei
 
papa smurf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: the last resort
Services: every thing
Posts: 13,739
papa smurf has a pair of shiny starspapa smurf has a pair of shiny starspapa smurf has a pair of shiny starspapa smurf has a pair of shiny stars
papa smurf has a pair of shiny starspapa smurf has a pair of shiny starspapa smurf has a pair of shiny starspapa smurf has a pair of shiny starspapa smurf has a pair of shiny starspapa smurf has a pair of shiny starspapa smurf has a pair of shiny starspapa smurf has a pair of shiny starspapa smurf has a pair of shiny starspapa smurf has a pair of shiny stars
Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY View Post
Perhaps the answer to refuelling problem relating to electric cars is to change the battery that's running out for a charged one at the garage.

The garage would then re-charge the depleted battery and then it's ready for the next customer.

I can't see how else it is practical to manage the situation if you drive 60 odd miles a day as I used to do in my last job.
a battery for a tesla weighs in at 648 lbs and i think their built into the floor that's about the weight of a chevy v8 engine

Battery Specs
Type Laminated lithium-ion battery
Voltage 403.2V [1]
Nominal voltage 360V [2]
Total capacity 24 kWh [2] (16 kWh available, 67% DoD [3], 21 kWh declared [4])
Power output Over 90 kW
Energy density 140 Wh/kg [5]
Power density 2.5 kW/kg [5]
Dimensions 61.8 x 46.8 x 10.4 in. (1570.5 x 1188 x 264.9 mm) [1]
Weight 648 lbs [6]
Number of modules 48, each with four cells (total 192 cells) [7][2]
Battery pack contents:
Positive electrodes: lithium manganate
Negative electrodes: carbon
Cells
Modules
Assembly parts
Charging times:
Quick charger DC50kW (0 to 80%): approx. 30 min (Level 3 charging)
Home-use AC240V charging dock (0-100%): 8 hrs (Level 2 charging) [8]
Regular 110/120V 15-amp outlet: 22 hours (Level 1 charging) [9]
Battery layout Under seat & floor
__________________
To be or not to be, woke is the question Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer. The slings and arrows of outrageous wokedome, Or to take arms against a sea of wokies. And by opposing end them.

Last edited by papa smurf; 29-07-2017 at 18:35.
papa smurf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-07-2017, 18:52   #168
OLD BOY
Rise above the players
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Wokingham
Services: 2 V6 boxes with 360 software, Now, ITVX, Amazon, Netflix, Lionsgate+, Apple+, Disney+, Paramount +,
Posts: 14,569
OLD BOY is cast in bronzeOLD BOY is cast in bronzeOLD BOY is cast in bronzeOLD BOY is cast in bronze
OLD BOY is cast in bronzeOLD BOY is cast in bronzeOLD BOY is cast in bronzeOLD BOY is cast in bronzeOLD BOY is cast in bronzeOLD BOY is cast in bronzeOLD BOY is cast in bronzeOLD BOY is cast in bronzeOLD BOY is cast in bronzeOLD BOY is cast in bronzeOLD BOY is cast in bronzeOLD BOY is cast in bronzeOLD BOY is cast in bronzeOLD BOY is cast in bronzeOLD BOY is cast in bronzeOLD BOY is cast in bronzeOLD BOY is cast in bronzeOLD BOY is cast in bronze
Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.

Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf View Post
a battery for a tesla weighs in at 648 lbs and i think their built into the floor that's about the weight of a chevy v8 engine

Battery Specs
Type Laminated lithium-ion battery
Voltage 403.2V [1]
Nominal voltage 360V [2]
Total capacity 24 kWh [2] (16 kWh available, 67% DoD [3], 21 kWh declared [4])
Power output Over 90 kW
Energy density 140 Wh/kg [5]
Power density 2.5 kW/kg [5]
Dimensions 61.8 x 46.8 x 10.4 in. (1570.5 x 1188 x 264.9 mm) [1]
Weight 648 lbs [6]
Number of modules 48, each with four cells (total 192 cells) [7][2]
Battery pack contents:
Positive electrodes: lithium manganate
Negative electrodes: carbon
Cells
Modules
Assembly parts
Charging times:
Quick charger DC50kW (0 to 80%): approx. 30 min (Level 3 charging)
Home-use AC240V charging dock (0-100%): 8 hrs (Level 2 charging) [8]
Regular 110/120V 15-amp outlet: 22 hours (Level 1 charging) [9]
Battery layout Under seat & floor
I am sure that battery sizes can be reduced by 2040, and if they are still too heavy, someone would have to invent a contraption for garages to use when replacing batteries.

If there are no straight forward ways to replace batteries, someone is going to have to come up with an alternative solution that is practical. The only one I have at the moment is hydrogen fuelled cars. Although expensive at present, the price will come down with mass production and competition.
OLD BOY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-07-2017, 18:56   #169
Kursk
-.- ..- .-. ... -.-
 
Kursk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,842
Kursk has disabled reputation
Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDaddy View Post
Problem with your plan is currently it takes about a five minutes to fill up a car, pay and go, even if we get the charging time down to an hour how many cars are these garages going to process compared to now and of course the drivers will have to stay with the cars and wait and wait and wait, it'll be a complete free for all to get to the charging station and wait and wait. Also there is a pretty horrific environmental cost to making and disposing of these batteries, it'd be interesting to compare the two and see the figures. I do like electorocuting persistent offenders though, that's a sensible policy although just to make the punishment as inhumane as possible they should be electrocuted with their own cars enormous battery.
A huge percentage will be topping up their fuel at home (which they can't do at the moment); or perhaps at a hotel or whatever. There's a pretty horrific environmental cost to extracting oil, refining, transporting and, of course, using.
Kursk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-07-2017, 18:58   #170
papa smurf
vox populi vox dei
 
papa smurf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: the last resort
Services: every thing
Posts: 13,739
papa smurf has a pair of shiny starspapa smurf has a pair of shiny starspapa smurf has a pair of shiny starspapa smurf has a pair of shiny stars
papa smurf has a pair of shiny starspapa smurf has a pair of shiny starspapa smurf has a pair of shiny starspapa smurf has a pair of shiny starspapa smurf has a pair of shiny starspapa smurf has a pair of shiny starspapa smurf has a pair of shiny starspapa smurf has a pair of shiny starspapa smurf has a pair of shiny starspapa smurf has a pair of shiny stars
Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD BOY View Post
I am sure that battery sizes can be reduced by 2040, and if they are still too heavy, someone would have to invent a contraption for garages to use when replacing batteries.

If there are no straight forward ways to replace batteries, someone is going to have to come up with an alternative solution that is practical. The only one I have at the moment is hydrogen fuelled cars. Although expensive at present, the price will come down with mass production and competition.
a fork lift truck ? battery powered of course

---------- Post added at 17:58 ---------- Previous post was at 17:57 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kursk View Post
A huge percentage will be topping up their fuel at home (which they can't do at the moment); or perhaps at a hotel or whatever. There's a pretty horrific environmental cost to extracting oil, refining, transporting and, of course, using.
jerry can
__________________
To be or not to be, woke is the question Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer. The slings and arrows of outrageous wokedome, Or to take arms against a sea of wokies. And by opposing end them.
papa smurf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-07-2017, 19:07   #171
TheDaddy
cf.mega pornstar
 
TheDaddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 18,782
TheDaddy has a golden auraTheDaddy has a golden auraTheDaddy has a golden aura
TheDaddy has a golden auraTheDaddy has a golden auraTheDaddy has a golden auraTheDaddy has a golden auraTheDaddy has a golden auraTheDaddy has a golden auraTheDaddy has a golden auraTheDaddy has a golden auraTheDaddy has a golden auraTheDaddy has a golden auraTheDaddy has a golden auraTheDaddy has a golden auraTheDaddy has a golden auraTheDaddy has a golden auraTheDaddy has a golden auraTheDaddy has a golden auraTheDaddy has a golden auraTheDaddy has a golden auraTheDaddy has a golden aura
Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kursk View Post
A huge percentage will be topping up their fuel at home (which they can't do at the moment); or perhaps at a hotel or whatever. There's a pretty horrific environmental cost to extracting oil, refining, transporting and, of course, using.
The challenges aren't insurmountable and we'll be there long before 2040 imo. Another plus again imo is to tell those rather unpleasant sand dwelling types with a penchant for decapitation and suppressing women to shove it
__________________
Sports Babble
TheDaddy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-07-2017, 19:13   #172
papa smurf
vox populi vox dei
 
papa smurf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: the last resort
Services: every thing
Posts: 13,739
papa smurf has a pair of shiny starspapa smurf has a pair of shiny starspapa smurf has a pair of shiny starspapa smurf has a pair of shiny stars
papa smurf has a pair of shiny starspapa smurf has a pair of shiny starspapa smurf has a pair of shiny starspapa smurf has a pair of shiny starspapa smurf has a pair of shiny starspapa smurf has a pair of shiny starspapa smurf has a pair of shiny starspapa smurf has a pair of shiny starspapa smurf has a pair of shiny starspapa smurf has a pair of shiny stars
Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kursk View Post
A huge percentage will be topping up their fuel at home (which they can't do at the moment); or perhaps at a hotel or whatever. There's a pretty horrific environmental cost to extracting oil, refining, transporting and, of course, using.
There's a pretty horrific environmental cost to extracting lithium , refining, transporting and, of course, using.

Elemental lithium is flammable and very reactive. In nature, lithium occurs in compounded forms such as lithium carbonate requiring chemical processing to be made usable.
Lithium is typically found in salt flats in areas where water is scarce. The mining process of lithium uses large amounts of water. Therefore, on top of water contamination as a result of its use, depletion or transportation costs are issues to be dealt with. Depletion results in less available water for local populations, flora and fauna.
Toxic chemicals are used for leaching purposes, chemicals requiring waste treatment. There are widespread concerns of improper handling and spills, like in other mining operations around the world.
The recovery rate of lithium ion batteries, even in first world countries, is in the single digit percent range. Most batteries end up in landfill.
In a 2013 report, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) points out that nickel and cobalt, both also used in the production of lithium ion batteries, represent significant additional environmental risks.

A 2012 study titled “Science for Environment Policy” published by the European Union compares lithium ion batteries to other types of batteries available (lead-acid, nickel-cadmium, nickel-metal-hydride and sodium sulphur). It concludes that lithium ion batteries have the largest impact on metal depletion, suggesting that recycling is complicated. Lithium ion batteries are also, together with nickel-metal-hydride batteries, the most energy consuming technologies using the equivalent of 1.6kg of oil per kg of battery produced. They also ranked the worst in greenhouse gas emissions with up to 12.5kg of CO2 equivalent emitted per kg of battery. The authors do point out that “…for a full understanding of life cycle impacts, further aspects of battery use need to be considered, such as length of usage, performance at different temperatures, and ability to discharge quickly.”
__________________
To be or not to be, woke is the question Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer. The slings and arrows of outrageous wokedome, Or to take arms against a sea of wokies. And by opposing end them.

Last edited by papa smurf; 29-07-2017 at 19:46.
papa smurf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-07-2017, 19:19   #173
Taf
cf.mega poster
 
Taf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Kairdiff-by-the-sea
Age: 68
Services: TVXL BBXL Superhub 2ac (wired) 1Tb Tivo
Posts: 9,785
Taf has a nice shiny starTaf has a nice shiny starTaf has a nice shiny starTaf has a nice shiny star
Taf has a nice shiny starTaf has a nice shiny starTaf has a nice shiny starTaf has a nice shiny starTaf has a nice shiny starTaf has a nice shiny starTaf has a nice shiny starTaf has a nice shiny star
Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.

Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf View Post
a fork lift truck ? battery powered of course
Most depots I've visited dropped battery power for gas power for all their forklifts years ago.
Taf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-07-2017, 20:06   #174
OLD BOY
Rise above the players
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Wokingham
Services: 2 V6 boxes with 360 software, Now, ITVX, Amazon, Netflix, Lionsgate+, Apple+, Disney+, Paramount +,
Posts: 14,569
OLD BOY is cast in bronzeOLD BOY is cast in bronzeOLD BOY is cast in bronzeOLD BOY is cast in bronze
OLD BOY is cast in bronzeOLD BOY is cast in bronzeOLD BOY is cast in bronzeOLD BOY is cast in bronzeOLD BOY is cast in bronzeOLD BOY is cast in bronzeOLD BOY is cast in bronzeOLD BOY is cast in bronzeOLD BOY is cast in bronzeOLD BOY is cast in bronzeOLD BOY is cast in bronzeOLD BOY is cast in bronzeOLD BOY is cast in bronzeOLD BOY is cast in bronzeOLD BOY is cast in bronzeOLD BOY is cast in bronzeOLD BOY is cast in bronzeOLD BOY is cast in bronze
Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taf View Post
Most depots I've visited dropped battery power for gas power for all their forklifts years ago.
That certainly makes more sense to me.
OLD BOY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-07-2017, 20:10   #175
Arthurgray50@blu
cf.mega poster
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 6,798
Arthurgray50@blu has a bronzed appealArthurgray50@blu has a bronzed appeal
Arthurgray50@blu has a bronzed appealArthurgray50@blu has a bronzed appealArthurgray50@blu has a bronzed appealArthurgray50@blu has a bronzed appealArthurgray50@blu has a bronzed appealArthurgray50@blu has a bronzed appealArthurgray50@blu has a bronzed appealArthurgray50@blu has a bronzed appealArthurgray50@blu has a bronzed appealArthurgray50@blu has a bronzed appealArthurgray50@blu has a bronzed appealArthurgray50@blu has a bronzed appealArthurgray50@blu has a bronzed appealArthurgray50@blu has a bronzed appealArthurgray50@blu has a bronzed appealArthurgray50@blu has a bronzed appealArthurgray50@blu has a bronzed appealArthurgray50@blu has a bronzed appealArthurgray50@blu has a bronzed appealArthurgray50@blu has a bronzed appeal
Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.

There is no way this will change in my lifetime.

If you think, my wife has a battered old Diesel car. I have a petrol car - and no we are not rich either.

My daughter has a diesel, my son has a petrol car.

If we got rid of all the cars - and Lorries due to the crazy government going over to electric vehicles.

Can you see how many people would be unemployed. Millions.

To get electric vehicles - how is the government going to get all those taxs.
Arthurgray50@blu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-07-2017, 20:21   #176
Hom3r
Mum 15/08/46 - 30/09/20
 
Hom3r's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Galactic Sector ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha, www.daves-world.co.uk. A secret Moonbase (shh don't tell anybody)
Age: 55
Services: 1 V6, 2x1TB TiVo, SH3. Samsung Galaxy Note 10+ 5G, Ton's of Smart Home stuff, & Cuddy Toy
Posts: 16,864
Hom3r has a pair of shiny starsHom3r has a pair of shiny starsHom3r has a pair of shiny starsHom3r has a pair of shiny stars
Hom3r has a pair of shiny stars
Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.

There are zero charging stations in my town, the nearest one is (15 miles) 30 minute drive away and if you park in the service station for 1 minute over 2 hours you get a £100 fine.

So much for telling drivers if your tired take a break.

Plus it can take 25 mins to get in the dam place and over 30 mins to get out.
__________________
STAY AT HOME: I found out that mum will never walk again as the coronavirus attacked her nervous system. She died on September 30th, wearing a mask and she still might be alive today.
Hom3r is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-07-2017, 00:00   #177
RizzyKing
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.

Until there is a breakthrough in battery technology the electric car will stay a minority thing and all this "by 2040" stuff reminds me of old tech shows that were convinced we would all be flying around in our cars by the millennium. Electric is the future but not without a breakthrough in the production of it and the practical storage of it the pace will continue to be slow. Nuclear can barely cover the gap in our current energy plans let alone adding tens of millions of car user's putting their cars on charge and as overnight would be the preference you can bet the power company's will bin the traditional low tariff's during the night.

Despite being supposed first world countries we really haven't done very well adapting to advancing technology and I don't see that changing anytime soon.
  Reply With Quote
Old 30-07-2017, 01:11   #178
Kursk
-.- ..- .-. ... -.-
 
Kursk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,842
Kursk has disabled reputation
Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.

Quote:
Originally Posted by papa smurf View Post
There's a pretty horrific environmental cost to extracting lithium , refining, transporting and, of course, using.

Elemental lithium is flammable and very reactive. In nature, lithium occurs in compounded forms such as lithium carbonate requiring chemical processing to be made usable.
Lithium is typically found in salt flats in areas where water is scarce. The mining process of lithium uses large amounts of water. Therefore, on top of water contamination as a result of its use, depletion or transportation costs are issues to be dealt with. Depletion results in less available water for local populations, flora and fauna.
Toxic chemicals are used for leaching purposes, chemicals requiring waste treatment. There are widespread concerns of improper handling and spills, like in other mining operations around the world.
The recovery rate of lithium ion batteries, even in first world countries, is in the single digit percent range. Most batteries end up in landfill.
In a 2013 report, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) points out that nickel and cobalt, both also used in the production of lithium ion batteries, represent significant additional environmental risks.
You posted without a link sadly because sadly the many years old article you cut and sadly pasted went on to say "Technology will of course improve, lithium supplies will be sufficient for the foreseeable future, and recycling rates will climb".
Kursk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-07-2017, 08:15   #179
denphone
Still alive and fighting
 
denphone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: In the land of beyond and beyond.
Services: XL BB, 3 360 boxes , XL TV.
Posts: 56,296
denphone has a golden auradenphone has a golden aura
denphone has a golden auradenphone has a golden auradenphone has a golden auradenphone has a golden auradenphone has a golden auradenphone has a golden auradenphone has a golden auradenphone has a golden auradenphone has a golden auradenphone has a golden aura
Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RizzyKing View Post
Until there is a breakthrough in battery technology the electric car will stay a minority thing and all this "by 2040" stuff reminds me of old tech shows that were convinced we would all be flying around in our cars by the millennium. Electric is the future but not without a breakthrough in the production of it and the practical storage of it the pace will continue to be slow. Nuclear can barely cover the gap in our current energy plans let alone adding tens of millions of car user's putting their cars on charge and as overnight would be the preference you can bet the power company's will bin the traditional low tariff's during the night.

Despite being supposed first world countries we really haven't done very well adapting to advancing technology and I don't see that changing anytime soon.
Pigs might fly springs to mind.
__________________
“The only lesson you can learn from history is that it repeats itself”
denphone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-07-2017, 09:31   #180
papa smurf
vox populi vox dei
 
papa smurf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: the last resort
Services: every thing
Posts: 13,739
papa smurf has a pair of shiny starspapa smurf has a pair of shiny starspapa smurf has a pair of shiny starspapa smurf has a pair of shiny stars
papa smurf has a pair of shiny starspapa smurf has a pair of shiny starspapa smurf has a pair of shiny starspapa smurf has a pair of shiny starspapa smurf has a pair of shiny starspapa smurf has a pair of shiny starspapa smurf has a pair of shiny starspapa smurf has a pair of shiny starspapa smurf has a pair of shiny starspapa smurf has a pair of shiny stars
Re: Petrol & diesel vehicles ban.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kursk View Post
You posted without a link sadly because sadly the many years old article you cut and sadly pasted went on to say "Technology will of course improve, lithium supplies will be sufficient for the foreseeable future, and recycling rates will climb".
but sadly they have not
__________________
To be or not to be, woke is the question Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer. The slings and arrows of outrageous wokedome, Or to take arms against a sea of wokies. And by opposing end them.
papa smurf is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 2 (0 members and 2 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 10:22.


Server: osmium.zmnt.uk
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.