Corbyn's kerfuffle

Corbyn has turned Arthur into a Tory. That's how bad he is.

The article I linked to about spin is a useful read. There is a difference between spin, which is a presentational trick, and outright lies (such as, for example, "there are no seats" when in fact there are).

Corbyn is guilty of telling an outright lie, in a way almost guaranteed to get himself caught, and then spectacularly mismanaging the fallout. He isn't fit to lead any political party, never mind the country.

Originally Posted by Chris

Corbyn has turned Arthur into a Tory. That's how bad he is.

The article I linked to about spin is a useful read. There is a difference between spin, which is a presentational trick, and outright lies (such as, for example, "there are no seats" when in fact there are).

Corbyn is guilty of telling an outright lie, in a way almost guaranteed to get himself caught, and then spectacularly mismanaging the fallout. He isn't fit to lead any political party, never mind the country.

At least if you're going to lie then do it well.

Tony Blair and Alistair Campbell wouldn't get caught out by so simple an error. They would have intentionally sought out a crowded train. Cynics would say they set themselves up for a photo-op but crucially they wouldn't be able to definitively prove it nor would it really matter.

Talented politicians rarely outright lie. They spin, obfuscate, carefully word statements or deal in hypothetical scenarios but they would rarely put themselves in a situation where something can be completely shown to be false.

The incompetence of it all should alarm people more than the lie.

[heero_yuy]

Originally Posted by Damien

At least if you're going to lie then do it well.

Tony Blair and Alistair Campbell wouldn't get caught out by so simple an error. They would have intentionally sought out a crowded train. Cynics would say they set themselves up for a photo-op but crucially they wouldn't be able to definitively prove it nor would it really matter.

Talented politicians rarely outright lie. They spin, obfuscate, carefully word statements or deal in hypothetical scenarios but they would rarely put themselves in a situation where something can be completely shown to be false.

That is the test of a true politician.

The incompetence of it all should alarm people more than the lie.

[rhyds]

Originally Posted by Damien

At least if you're going to lie then do it well.

Tony Blair and Alistair Campbell wouldn't get caught out by so simple an error. They would have intentionally sought out a crowded train. Cynics would say they set themselves up for a photo-op but crucially they wouldn't be able to definitively prove it nor would it really matter.

Talented politicians rarely outright lie. They spin, obfuscate, carefully word statements or deal in hypothetical scenarios but they would rarely put themselves in a situation where something can be completely shown to be false.

The incompetence of it all should alarm people more than the lie.

As a chap on another forum pointed out, if Corbyn had both brain cells firing he'd have done the stunt on a Southern train at rush hour. That would be pretty much irrefutable, keep the southern rail strikes (which are damaging the government) in the news and really help his cause.

Instead his crew decide to do it on an 11am train to Newcastle with spare seats. Again, if he'd gone for "people have to do this every day, I decided to try it for an hour to highlight the issues" he might have got away with it.

But no, his crew decided to go for the full whopper and make it all up. It reminds me of that woman who claimed she'd been assaulted in Primark while breastfeeding, only for it to be proven she'd made it all up and she was given a suspended prison sentence.

And as for those laying in to Branson for releasing the CCTV footage, all companies are well within their rights to defend their reputation against what could be argued to be defamation/libel or similar. I think Corbyn's team thought that Virgin Trains and Branson simply wouldn't bother defending themselves, only for them to get a very nasty shock.

[Osem]

Originally Posted by Chris

Corbyn has turned Arthur into a Tory. That's how bad he is.

The article I linked to about spin is a useful read. There is a difference between spin, which is a presentational trick, and outright lies (such as, for example, "there are no seats" when in fact there are).

Corbyn is guilty of telling an outright lie, in a way almost guaranteed to get himself caught, and then spectacularly mismanaging the fallout. He isn't fit to lead any political party, never mind the country.

With all due respect, Corbyn couldn't run a children's party.

Aside from UK PLC not so slowly grinding to a halt, can you imagine the sort of international incidents Corbyn would get us into if he were leading the country? In political terms he's like a sad old man who's become a bit of a hermit with some odd and not very nice habits which he hitherto got away with because nobody noticed. Can anyone seriously imagine him representing and negotiating anything of any worth for the UK? Right now he's only the leader of a party in what I hope is terminal decline yet he's managed to show himself as a ditherer or fantasist on virtually all the important issues he's faced.

[rhyds]

Originally Posted by Osem

With all due respect, Corbyn couldn't run a children's party.

On facebook, someone who's the son of a serving Labour MP and a true believer of Corbyn said "Corbyn can take May"

The reply?

"Corbyn would struggle to take a bath..."

[Osem]

It's quite noticeable how there's a vociferous minority of people who appear out of the woodwork whenever Corbyn puts his foot in it and argue he's done nothing wrong. Similar tactics are used when there's a tube strike and all of a sudden seemingly random people appear on the airwaves, all saying remarkably similar things in defence of the union line. Far too similar...

It's a well known tactic of course based on the he who shouts loudest school of thought. The difference with Corbyn is that I don't think most of these people respect him half as much as they claim. What the extremist element see in him is, I believe, an opportunity to exploit his weakness in order to further their destructive objectives. To that extent Corbyn is a tool in more ways than one...

[rhyds]

Yep, Corbyn's just an Useful Idiot to the hard left.

Corbyn is not useful for anything or anyone the man is a walking calamity and how he's managed to get the fanatical followers i have no idea but i suspect they are fanatical about what he claims to be rather then what he actually is. This entire train stunt was just plain lazy and badly implemented and if the man can't bring the issue of overcrowded trains which do exist fairly often to light in an honest and semi intelligent way then that's a massive warning as to how incapable he'd be with anything remotely hard much less the day to day running of a government.

It's been funny but this is a joke that's long since run it's course labour party members need to come back to planet earth and elect someone serious and who may be able to run things. Corbyn is not a leader he's barely a politician and has no right being in the forefront old story of a very limited individual elevated far beyond his ability and the other lesson for labour is not to put up joke candidates because as Corbyn has proved they sometimes win.

[heero_yuy]

The joke may have run its course but the gift just keeps on giving.

In case you're wondering what excuses are being made for Corbyn so that he didn't lie they are:

1. CCTV was fake
2. He walked down to find seats together, when he went back they were all taken. Then Virgin moved people around and he got one
3. There are bags and coats on the seats but Corbyn couldn't talk to the passangers in case they were not converts of St Jeremy the Honest
4. The passengers were neoliberal shills and as such Corbyn stood (or sat) well clear
5. The seats were taken by a band of travelling midgets

[rhyds]

6. Richard Branson once had a photo taken with Tony Blair. Ergo he's Blairite

7. There were spare seats, but Jeremy wanted two together so he could sit by his wife

8. The tories have done the same

[Osem]

9. It's all Thatcher's fault.

10. It's all Bliar's fault.

On a related note...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37190437

G4S 'rejects Labour conference security offer'

Security giant G4S says it has rejected a last-minute approach by Labour to cover its annual conference.

G4S - which Labour previously voted to boycott - said it was contacted this week but could not take on the "large, complex" job at short notice.

It comes amid a standoff between the GMB and another security firm, Showsec, over union recognition.

Labour refused to comment on commercial arrangements but sources said the conference would go ahead as planned.

The GMB has claimed the conference could be "scuppered" by its row with Showsec, which centres on the company's refusal to sign a union recognition agreement before the conference, which begins in Liverpool on 25 September.

'Successful relationship'
Security at recent conferences has been provided by G4S, which Labour's executive committee voted to boycott, over claims the company has links to Israeli prisons.

The company said it had been approached earlier this week by Labour for this year's event.
G4S managing director Eric Alexander said his company had been disappointed not to continue its "successful working relationship" with Labour.

Planning for such an event would normally take up to a year, involving clearance for security officers, detailed risk assessments and planning with local police forces, he said.

"Safety for delegates and our staff is our priority and at this late stage and with our teams committed elsewhere, we are not in a position to step in and provide security for the conference."

Brings to mind the old phrase about the inability to organise a heavy drinking session at a place where beer is made....

[Osem]

Right now a whelk stall is looking like it'd overstretch Labour's organisational capabilities.