Sainsbury's pull out of 'Work for your benefits scheme'

Originally Posted by Gary L

Eh?
Minimum wage is:
£6.08 - the main rate for workers aged 21 and over
= £152
£4.98 - the 18-20 rate
= £124

why would you sooner work 25hrs a week for £50 - £67 instead of the above amounts, just so you don't have to take the same job for the above amounts?

Think about it Gary ,25hrs work most likely easy menial work ,lets say dishwashing or stacking shelves .In return the claimant gets jsa ,full housing benefit ,free prescriptions council tax rebate and any other benefit you can think of so he/she gets the security of a life on benefits and the DWP is off their back about finding work .Doesn't sound like much of an incentive to take 25hrs paid work and lose most of the benefits

[Gary L]

Originally Posted by martyh

Think about it Gary ,25hrs work most likely easy menial work ,lets say dishwashing or stacking shelves .In return the claimant gets jsa ,full housing benefit ,free prescriptions council tax rebate and any other benefit you can think of so he/she gets the security of a life on benefits and the DWP is off their back about finding work .Doesn't sound like much of an incentive to take 25hrs paid work and lose most of the benefits

Fair point about the housing benefit and such, but what about this and the other companies getting the free work and saving hundreds if not thousands of pounds in saved wages at the expense of the taxpayer?

not forgetting unpaid taxes.

Originally Posted by Gary L

Fair point about the housing benefit and such, but what about this and the other companies getting the free work and saving hundreds if not thousands of pounds in saved wages at the expense of the taxpayer?

not forgetting unpaid taxes.

That's what's wrong about the whole scheme .A company like Tesco should employ someone at the going rate if there is a job to be done .If this is being vaunted as a training scheme then the company should offer some form of qualification and a job offer at the end

[Gary L]

Originally Posted by martyh

That's what's wrong about the whole scheme .A company like Tesco should employ someone at the going rate if there is a job to be done .If this is being vaunted as a training scheme then the company should offer some form of qualification and a job offer at the end

It could be the case that these companies actually pay the persons JSA in the background in exchange for the governments approval of the cheap labour.

but then all hell that breaks loose when all hell breaks loose will be all hell broken loose

Originally Posted by Gary L

It could be the case that these companies actually pay the persons JSA in the background in exchange for the governments approval of the cheap labour.

but then all hell that breaks loose when all hell breaks loose will be all hell broken loose

still cheap labour

[Gary L]

Originally Posted by martyh

still cheap labour

That's the point. cheap labour with the governments approval.

which inevitably means no more real jobs, and a loss of real jobs.

I remember saying before that councils would be part of it, and they already are. just have to wait and see what job losses will be covered by people earning JSA + Expenses.

Originally Posted by Gary L

It could be the case that these companies actually pay the persons JSA in the background in exchange for the governments approval of the cheap labour.

but then all hell that breaks loose when all hell breaks loose will be all hell broken loose

And then again, it probably isn't the case, and you are making it up.

[Gary L]

Originally Posted by Hugh

And then again, it probably isn't the case, and you are making it up.

You sound worried, Hugh.

anyway, this reply from Argos.

“We can confirm that Argos does not have a policy to recruit colleagues through the governments Work Experience Programme, but we do make use of it to offer work experience… Christmas is our busiest time of year and we are pleased to provide the opportunity for work experience during this time.”

They are pleased to take on free labour over their busiest period so they don't have to pay their own staff overtime money, they're saying.

it almost comes across that they are teasing us with the admission that they use them over busy periods. probably because that's how they were sold the idea to get them to participate in the scam. so they think it's ok to do.

actually, they are infact saying that they use it to get free labour so they don't have to pay a wage or overtime. they just don't realise how disgusting it is actually admit it.

Royal Mail will probably say the same around Xmas time.

Not worried at all, Gary - I just like to base my discussion on evidence and reality, not statements like

It could be the case that these companies actually pay the persons JSA in the background in exchange for the governments approval of the cheap labour

and

how do we get Dave out before he authorises lethal injections to the disabled and jobless?

Anyway, back to reality....

If these schemes are taking the place of permanent jobs, they are wrong - people should be paid the going rate for the job.

If however, these are temporary and are voluntary (where voluntary is where you can drop out in the first week, rather than half-way through and you can't be bothered getting out of bed), and where, in the case of Tesco, one quarter of all the people who took part ended up getting a permanent job, surely this is a good thing.

Regarding the job adverts stating the companies are looking to make these permanent, it has been reported that these are mistakes by the Job Centre IT system

In a statement, Tesco said: "The advert is a mistake caused by an IT error by Jobcentre Plus and is being rectified.
"It is an advert for work experience with a guaranteed job interview at the end of it as part of a Government-led work experience scheme.

if this is not true, I would have expected the Unions in Tesco, etc, to be up in arms about it, and I would support them in this.

People have to realise that work experience is one of the biggest factors in getting a job, as employers are looking for proof that you can get up in the morning and turn up regularly, as well as have the capabilities to do the work - this is difficult to prove if you have been unemployed for some time, or never had a job. However, it has to be a two-way undertaking, where the person doing the work experience gains some skills and knowledge, as well as getting used to the idea of getting up and turning up. When we give people two to four weeks work experience (not as part of this scheme, but as part of a graduate employability skills programme), it actually reduces our productivity for the time as we spend more time on supervision and coaching than we gain in work throughput.

[Gary L]

If this is true then Tesco's and all the others don't even have to pay the claimants expenses either. we do.
so we as tax payers are paying taxes to make these companies save what totals millions of pounds worth of unpaid wages.

Tesco don't even pay expenses, the travel expenses come from the programme provider (ingeus, a4e ect) and this money comes from the taxpayer, so the taxpayer is actually paying circa 20pounds a week extra to ferry each unemployed person to tesco to work for free. Aside from what anyone thinks about unemployed being scroungers ect, this whole scheme is a HUGE WASTE of tax payer money, ingeus and a4e are being paid billions to find people work in a country where there are 10 or more applications for every job! and this scheme makes paid work even more scarce!

[Gary L]

Maplin have pulled out the scam.

and police are investigating fraud to do with the scam.

Police visit offices of A4e, whose chair was appointed by David Cameron to help get troubled families into work
Ministers have been urged to suspend welfare-to-work contracts with a company at the centre of allegations of fraud.
Thames Valley police visited the offices of A4e in Slough, Berkshire, over the claims on Friday.
The company said they concerned a "very small" number of former employees whose activities had been referred to police by A4e.

[Gary L]

Tesco is to hold crisis talks with employment officials as the row over the supermarket chain’s use of ‘slave labour’ intensifies.

Several high-profile companies have already pulled out of the Government’s under-fire ‘workfare’ scheme and the food retail giant is getting increasingly jittery after one of its stores was forced to close by protesters.

Tesco says it wants the rules changed to make it clear no one would lose their benefits if they do not wish to continue working.

Tesco is also concerned after thousands of angry customers wrote in and posted messages on its Facebook page, accusing the firm of profiting from hundreds of thousands of hours of forced unpaid work.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...rk-scheme.html

[Chrysalis]

Originally Posted by danielf

It seems to me that this is turning into a spectacular coalition own goal. Honestly, if employers are pulling out of 'make claimants work for free' you know you're on to a loser. (Unless, you're called Tesco of course).

Hats of to the idea tho, the tories never have liked the min wage and this was a clever way to try and evade it.

Thankfully the media did see sense on this and didnt cover it up.

---------- Post added at 18:21 ---------- Previous post was at 18:12 ----------

Originally Posted by Gary L

Tesco is to hold crisis talks with employment officials as the row over the supermarket chain’s use of ‘slave labour’ intensifies.

Several high-profile companies have already pulled out of the Government’s under-fire ‘workfare’ scheme and the food retail giant is getting increasingly jittery after one of its stores was forced to close by protesters.

Tesco says it wants the rules changed to make it clear no one would lose their benefits if they do not wish to continue working.

Tesco is also concerned after thousands of angry customers wrote in and posted messages on its Facebook page, accusing the firm of profiting from hundreds of thousands of hours of forced unpaid work.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...rk-scheme.html

Tesco says it wants the rules changed to make it clear no one would lose their benefits if they do not wish to continue working.

Interesting, if we see this happen it will show how government works for business. However it still doesnt change it is slave labour breaching min wage laws.

[TheDaddy]

Originally Posted by martyh

Think about it Gary ,25hrs work most likely easy menial work ,lets say dishwashing or stacking shelves .In return the claimant gets jsa ,full housing benefit ,free prescriptions council tax rebate and any other benefit you can think of so he/she gets the security of a life on benefits and the DWP is off their back about finding work .Doesn't sound like much of an incentive to take 25hrs paid work and lose most of the benefits

Err this seems to be aimed at the young so they probably aren't getting housing benefits or council tax rebates as they live with their parents and what sort of work experience is dishwashing unless you're planning a career washing dishes of course...

---------- Post added at 17:54 ---------- Previous post was at 17:51 ----------

Originally Posted by Hugh

Not worried at all, Gary - I just like to base my discussion on evidence and reality, not statements like and
Anyway, back to reality....

If these schemes are taking the place of permanent jobs, they are wrong - people should be paid the going rate for the job.

If however, these are temporary and are voluntary (where voluntary is where you can drop out in the first week, rather than half-way through and you can't be bothered getting out of bed), and where, in the case of Tesco, one quarter of all the people who took part ended up getting a permanent job, surely this is a good thing.

Regarding the job adverts stating the companies are looking to make these permanent, it has been reported that these are mistakes by the Job Centre IT system if this is not true, I would have expected the Unions in Tesco, etc, to be up in arms about it, and I would support them in this.

People have to realise that work experience is one of the biggest factors in getting a job, as employers are looking for proof that you can get up in the morning and turn up regularly, as well as have the capabilities to do the work - this is difficult to prove if you have been unemployed for some time, or never had a job. However, it has to be a two-way undertaking, where the person doing the work experience gains some skills and knowledge, as well as getting used to the idea of getting up and turning up. When we give people two to four weeks work experience (not as part of this scheme, but as part of a graduate employability skills programme), it actually reduces our productivity for the time as we spend more time on supervision and coaching than we gain in work throughput.

This is what I hoped the scheme would be about can't help but have concerns that it won't be though...

Originally Posted by TheDaddy

Err this seems to be aimed at the young so they probably aren't getting housing benefits or council tax rebates as they live with their parents and what sort of work experience is dishwashing unless you're planning a career washing dishes of course...

err..i believe it's aimed at anybody .
work experience is exactly what it says 'work experience' ,it's not just about gaining skills ,although that is important what is equally as important is learning how to get up in the morning and be on time ,to do what you are told and how to conduct yourself in a work environment ,all valuable lessons for people of any age who have not worked for a long time .All of the above can be learned in any job including dishwashing