Home News Forum Articles
  Welcome back Join CF
You are here You are here: Home | Forum | Crisis in the NHS

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most of the discussions, articles and other free features. By joining our Virgin Media community you will have full access to all discussions, be able to view and post threads, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload your own images/photos, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please join our community today.


Welcome to Cable Forum
Go Back   Cable Forum > General Discussion > Current Affairs

Crisis in the NHS
Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 11-01-2017, 11:09   #76
Stuart
-
Cable Forum Team
 
Stuart's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Sarf east Luhndun.
Services: Virgin for TV and Internet, BT for phone
Posts: 26,441
Stuart has a lot of silver blingStuart has a lot of silver blingStuart has a lot of silver blingStuart has a lot of silver bling
Stuart has a lot of silver blingStuart has a lot of silver blingStuart has a lot of silver blingStuart has a lot of silver blingStuart has a lot of silver blingStuart has a lot of silver blingStuart has a lot of silver blingStuart has a lot of silver blingStuart has a lot of silver blingStuart has a lot of silver blingStuart has a lot of silver blingStuart has a lot of silver blingStuart has a lot of silver blingStuart has a lot of silver blingStuart has a lot of silver blingStuart has a lot of silver bling
Re: Crisis in the NHS

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arthurgray50@blu View Post
A big problem here is that simply. The NHS MUST stop giving free aid to every tom, dick and harry.

IF, you don't have the funds and ont have an address. then you DONT GET FREE treatment.
How do you enforce this? Say someone is involved in a major traffic accident. They do not own the car, are unconscious, dying and do not carry any identifying documents (a lot of people don't). Risk them dying while you check their ID via DNA swabs (assuming their DNA is on record)?

Quote:
IF, you are homeless. Then you can get treatment via charities. That might be cruel. But the Tories are being cruel to everyone in the UK. By cutting funds to GPs, local Councils etc etc.
And who funds the charities who, lets not forget, are being hit by the same cuts?.
Quote:
Local Government are at fault for local GPs cuts, to Social Care and Day Care Centres. They are closing them down all the time.

What these Day Centres can provide is GP service. Which would solve an OAP that is in Hospital. They would come out of hospital, straight to a day Care centre under the direction of a GP.
You are right, the NHS is providing care to a lot of people it shouldn't have to, but who is going to pay for the day care centres? Remember, Councils are being affected by the cuts too.
Quote:
It is totally wrong that Local Councils say they don't have any money. Hounslow Coucil for example must make thusand of pounds EACH week from Parking and fines.
They probably do. They also have to spend thousands of pounds each week providing things like libraries and schools, as well as things like dustbin collection, sports grounds and street lighting.

Quote:
When l go to The Blenhiem Centre on a Bank Holiday, people still put money in for a ticket.

They claim that this money goes for the upkeep of the car park. What painting lines, you can get the Unemployed to do that as part og the TRAINING.
Actually, having done book keeping for a local group of leisure centres, I was surprised at how much it *does* actually cost to maintain a carpark. It isn't only the painting. There is also the costs involved in maintaining/renewing the surface, maintaining the ticket machines as well as security and lighting. That said, Bromley Council (my local council) did make a hefty profit from the car park fees.
Quote:
I have been on these courses. And they are NOT worth going to.
Not really sure of the relevance.

Quote:
One of the roads near The Blenhiem Centre, was FREE parking. Council decided in there wisdom to put 15 parking meters there.
Do people live in the road? The council may have put the meters in to help them? They would likely have permits. I live in a road near shops, and believe me, parking in my road during the day is almost impossible. I have a drive, so it doesn't affect me usually, but it is a major PITA if I have workmen in.

Quote:
ALL this money can go into GP services on the borough. I went to a GP surgery on Friday. And it was empty. And yet, every surgery on a Monday, you cannot get an appointment.
If that is the case, surely the GPs can do something about it? It's them that issue the appointments.
Quote:
Mr Hunt has said that the 'FOUR HOUR SLOT is only for the serious ill paitents. So if you end up in Hospital with a Heart Attack, which has to be dealt with 'within the golden hour' you might not get seen, if you start to get better.
I am fairly certain someone suffering a heart attack would be assessed almost immediately and rushed to the top of the list.
Quote:
I think the whole matter with the NHS stinks. And all this to save bloody money by the Tories, so they can upkeep there Private Health Care companies.
That's just it, throwing more money at the NHS isn't going to solve the problem. I don't doubt that the NHS does need more resources, but they have to be directed in the right areas. Throwing more money at it blindly is either going to help the shareholders in the NHS's various contractors, or it's going to ensure that the money is wasted.

The Tories (and I include Tony Blair and Gordon Brown in this) are just interested in farming stuff off to contractors (possibly looking toward their own future when they cease to be MPs), and Labour just seem interested in blindly throwing money at it.
Stuart is offline   Reply With Quote
Advertisement
Old 11-01-2017, 12:09   #77
1andrew1
cf.mega poster
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,927
1andrew1 has reached the bronze age
1andrew1 has reached the bronze age1andrew1 has reached the bronze age1andrew1 has reached the bronze age1andrew1 has reached the bronze age1andrew1 has reached the bronze age1andrew1 has reached the bronze age
Re: Crisis in the NHS

Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien View Post
People always want to take the politics out of [something] but I fail to see how that really works. Politics is how we decide these things. People vote governments in or out in part on their performance managing things like the Health Service.

If anything taking politics out of these areas is a way cowardly politicians try to avoid being accountable for their responsibilities. Hence when we have situations like Southern where the government can point at the companies and the unions are say it's nothing to do with them when they not only gave them the contract but stuck their oar in on how it should be managed - i.e get rid of the guards.

Nah, the government is responsible for running the health service and they're accountable for it as a result.
Good argument. I still think some kind of consensus over an increase in general taxation may be agreed for the NHS though.
1andrew1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2017, 12:11   #78
Osem
Expose lies & hypocrisy
Shark Attack Champion, Pacman Champion, Air Attack 3 Champion, MiniPool Champion
 
Osem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Right here!
Posts: 22,235
Osem is seeing silvered starsOsem is seeing silvered starsOsem is seeing silvered starsOsem is seeing silvered starsOsem is seeing silvered starsOsem is seeing silvered starsOsem is seeing silvered stars
Osem is seeing silvered starsOsem is seeing silvered starsOsem is seeing silvered starsOsem is seeing silvered starsOsem is seeing silvered starsOsem is seeing silvered starsOsem is seeing silvered starsOsem is seeing silvered starsOsem is seeing silvered starsOsem is seeing silvered starsOsem is seeing silvered stars
Re: Crisis in the NHS

Quote:
Originally Posted by OhReally View Post
This.

One of the initiatives of the last labour government. These contracts can be 20-30 years and the total cost is eye-watering.

But of course you'll never hear a left-wing luvvie slagging off good old Brown/Blair for "privatising" the NHS
Yes, that's a supreme irony but it doesn't surprise me that the usual suspects overlook that fact when they're blaming the Tories and everyone else for everything that's wrong in the NHS.
__________________
Corbyn's nasty 'new' politics - hypocrisy, ineptitude, intimidation, extremism & even more debt.

Same old lies, same old Labour.
Osem is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2017, 12:21   #79
heero_yuy
Perfect Soldier
 
heero_yuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Worthing West Sussex
Age: 60
Services: VM 70M SHUB thingy in modem mode XL TV VboxHD Sony Bravia smart TV and M phone
Posts: 13,507
heero_yuy has a pair of shiny starsheero_yuy has a pair of shiny starsheero_yuy has a pair of shiny starsheero_yuy has a pair of shiny stars
heero_yuy has a pair of shiny starsheero_yuy has a pair of shiny starsheero_yuy has a pair of shiny starsheero_yuy has a pair of shiny starsheero_yuy has a pair of shiny starsheero_yuy has a pair of shiny starsheero_yuy has a pair of shiny starsheero_yuy has a pair of shiny starsheero_yuy has a pair of shiny starsheero_yuy has a pair of shiny starsheero_yuy has a pair of shiny starsheero_yuy has a pair of shiny starsheero_yuy has a pair of shiny starsheero_yuy has a pair of shiny starsheero_yuy has a pair of shiny starsheero_yuy has a pair of shiny starsheero_yuy has a pair of shiny starsheero_yuy has a pair of shiny starsheero_yuy has a pair of shiny starsheero_yuy has a pair of shiny stars
Re: Crisis in the NHS

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 View Post
Good argument. I still think some kind of consensus over an increase in general taxation may be agreed for the NHS though.
Best way here IMHO would be to roll NI into income tax. This would have several benefits: The starting threshold for NI clobbers the very low paid, making this the same as income tax would help them. Those who contract their work and avoid paying NI could be bought into the system particularly if the amount they can pay themselves by dividends is limited.

Then there's no upper ceiling to income tax unlike NI (£150K IIRC) so some extra revenue could be generated from those on higher pay to put toward the NHS.
__________________
History is much like an endless waltz. The three beats of war, peace and revolution continue on forever.
However history will change with my coronation - Mariemaia Kushrenada
heero_yuy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2017, 13:01   #80
Taf
cf.mega poster
 
Taf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Kairdiff-by-the-sea
Age: 61
Services: TVXL BBXL Superhub 2ac (wired) 1Tb Tivo
Posts: 7,601
Taf has a nice shiny starTaf has a nice shiny starTaf has a nice shiny star
Taf has a nice shiny starTaf has a nice shiny star
Re: Crisis in the NHS

It's not just the NHS in "crisis". French radio just said that 6 out of 10 French hospitals are now unable to take more patients due to the Flu epidemic that has appeared in Europe. And the Flu Jab seems to be totally ineffective... again.

---------- Post added at 12:01 ---------- Previous post was at 11:58 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by heero_yuy View Post
Best way here IMHO would be to roll NI into income tax.
But this would prevent HMG from keeping Income Tax tax down (for propaganda purposes) whilst coining-it-in with hikes in NI.
Taf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2017, 13:38   #81
1andrew1
cf.mega poster
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,927
1andrew1 has reached the bronze age
1andrew1 has reached the bronze age1andrew1 has reached the bronze age1andrew1 has reached the bronze age1andrew1 has reached the bronze age1andrew1 has reached the bronze age1andrew1 has reached the bronze age
Re: Crisis in the NHS

Quote:
Originally Posted by heero_yuy View Post
Best way here IMHO would be to roll NI into income tax. This would have several benefits: The starting threshold for NI clobbers the very low paid, making this the same as income tax would help them. Those who contract their work and avoid paying NI could be bought into the system particularly if the amount they can pay themselves by dividends is limited.

Then there's no upper ceiling to income tax unlike NI (£150K IIRC) so some extra revenue could be generated from those on higher pay to put toward the NHS.
That approach would also make admin easier for employers and HMRC. But how it would go down with the electorate would be another matter as people might associate it with being worse off.

---------- Post added at 12:38 ---------- Previous post was at 12:05 ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taf View Post
It's not just the NHS in "crisis". French radio just said that 6 out of 10 French hospitals are now unable to take more patients due to the Flu epidemic that has appeared in Europe. And the Flu Jab seems to be totally ineffective... again.

---------- Post added at 12:01 ---------- Previous post was at 11:58 ----------



But this would prevent HMG from keeping Income Tax tax down (for propaganda purposes) whilst coining-it-in with hikes in NI.
Maybe get rid of NI and introduce another proportionate tax called simply "NHS" which works like tax and not NI so doesn't penalise the worse off?
1andrew1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2017, 13:52   #82
Pierre
The Dark Satanic Mills
 
Pierre's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: floating in the ether
Posts: 6,799
Pierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny star
Pierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny starPierre has a nice shiny star
Re: Crisis in the NHS

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 View Post
Good argument. I still think some kind of consensus over an increase in general taxation may be agreed for the NHS though.
I wouldn't support it. I don't think that many people would.

Doesn't matter how much money you throw at it, it will never be enough the way it is currently run.

It needs to be completely re-imagined.
__________________
The wheel's still turning but the hamsters dead.
Pierre is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2017, 13:59   #83
Taf
cf.mega poster
 
Taf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Kairdiff-by-the-sea
Age: 61
Services: TVXL BBXL Superhub 2ac (wired) 1Tb Tivo
Posts: 7,601
Taf has a nice shiny starTaf has a nice shiny starTaf has a nice shiny star
Taf has a nice shiny starTaf has a nice shiny star
Re: Crisis in the NHS

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1andrew1 View Post
Maybe get rid of NI and introduce another proportionate tax called simply "NHS" which works like tax and not NI so doesn't penalise the worse off?
Sort of a National Health Service Insurance Tax?

They could call that "National Insurance".
Taf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2017, 15:07   #84
Ramrod
[NTHW] pc clan
 
Ramrod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Tonbridge
Age: 50
Services: Freeview/ BT infinity
Posts: 21,633
Ramrod has a golden aura
Ramrod has a golden auraRamrod has a golden auraRamrod has a golden auraRamrod has a golden auraRamrod has a golden auraRamrod has a golden aura
Re: Crisis in the NHS

Quote:
Originally Posted by heero_yuy View Post
Perhaps educating generation snowflake that a simple bruise or cut just needs a bit of self administered first aid rather than an ambulance to A&E.
Trouble is that the liberal establishment has spent the last 20 or so years brainwashing people that the state should be responsible for more and more aspects of their lives and their wellbeing. It's not hard to see why more are now going to A&E or trying to see their GP for minor problems.
__________________
Step by step, walk the thousand mile road...
-----------------------------------------------------

nthwgaming.co.uk
Ramrod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2017, 15:53   #85
denphone
Still alive and happy
 
denphone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: In the land of beyond and beyond.
Services: XL BB, 2 V6 boxes , XL TV.
Posts: 44,898
denphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver bling
denphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver bling
Re: Crisis in the NHS

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramrod View Post
Trouble is that the liberal establishment has spent the last 20 or so years brainwashing people that the state should be responsible for more and more aspects of their lives and their wellbeing. It's not hard to see why more are now going to A&E or trying to see their GP for minor problems.
In the last 16 years despite my serious ongoing illnesses l have been to A&E once and that was because it was on a Saturday night when one cannot see a GP while l see my GP every few months because that is what she told me to do because of my ongoing illnesses which have been prevalent in the last 16 years.
__________________
“The only lesson you can learn from history is that it repeats itself”
denphone is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2017, 16:22   #86
Ramrod
[NTHW] pc clan
 
Ramrod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Tonbridge
Age: 50
Services: Freeview/ BT infinity
Posts: 21,633
Ramrod has a golden aura
Ramrod has a golden auraRamrod has a golden auraRamrod has a golden auraRamrod has a golden auraRamrod has a golden auraRamrod has a golden aura
Re: Crisis in the NHS

Quote:
Originally Posted by denphone View Post
In the last 16 years despite my serious ongoing illnesses l have been to A&E once and that was because it was on a Saturday night when one cannot see a GP while l see my GP every few months because that is what she told me to do because of my ongoing illnesses which have been prevalent in the last 16 years.
Good for you I'm much the same. I understand (from people who work in the NHS) that many aren't.
__________________
Step by step, walk the thousand mile road...
-----------------------------------------------------

nthwgaming.co.uk
Ramrod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2017, 16:41   #87
denphone
Still alive and happy
 
denphone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: In the land of beyond and beyond.
Services: XL BB, 2 V6 boxes , XL TV.
Posts: 44,898
denphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver bling
denphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver blingdenphone has a lot of silver bling
Re: Crisis in the NHS

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramrod View Post
Good for you I'm much the same. I understand (from people who work in the NHS) that many aren't.
Yes l think we all know taking by taking party politics out of it they are both as bad as each other in that regard as they both lie and obfuscate on a regular basis about the real state of the NHS as there are many reasons why the NHS is under numerous intolerable pressures as has been explained by several posters in this thread as there is certainly no way the NHS can continue in its current state as we need a NHS that is fit and ready for the next few decades and beyond so there needs to be real debate and consultation on how our beloved NHS can move forward but the vexed question is how do we go about it.
__________________
“The only lesson you can learn from history is that it repeats itself”

Last edited by denphone; 11-01-2017 at 17:06. Reason: Changing words
denphone is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2017, 17:28   #88
Taf
cf.mega poster
 
Taf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Kairdiff-by-the-sea
Age: 61
Services: TVXL BBXL Superhub 2ac (wired) 1Tb Tivo
Posts: 7,601
Taf has a nice shiny starTaf has a nice shiny starTaf has a nice shiny star
Taf has a nice shiny starTaf has a nice shiny star
Re: Crisis in the NHS

Our local hospital has a drop-in clinic about 200 yards from the ER. Waiting times are brutal though. Staff levels keep dropping.....
Taf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2017, 18:27   #89
RizzyKing
You gotta laugh :D
 
RizzyKing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 6,303
RizzyKing has a nice shiny starRizzyKing has a nice shiny starRizzyKing has a nice shiny starRizzyKing has a nice shiny starRizzyKing has a nice shiny star
RizzyKing has a nice shiny starRizzyKing has a nice shiny starRizzyKing has a nice shiny starRizzyKing has a nice shiny starRizzyKing has a nice shiny starRizzyKing has a nice shiny starRizzyKing has a nice shiny starRizzyKing has a nice shiny starRizzyKing has a nice shiny starRizzyKing has a nice shiny starRizzyKing has a nice shiny starRizzyKing has a nice shiny starRizzyKing has a nice shiny star
Re: Crisis in the NHS

I have to be basically dying before i'll make a GP appointment and the usual wait means i'm over most things by the time i'd get an appointment so it works for me. My GP is constantly telling me he should see me more often due to my issue's but we compromise i promise to see him once a year and that i'll make an appointment if anything gets too serious but on the odd occasion i go to the surgery it's always full and most rarely get in at their time. A lot of people do seem to go for the daftest reasons though and for things people over a certain age seem to not feel warrants a GP visit there is definately an age gap issue with regards attitudes.

I do think it's time to enforce financial penalty's for not attending appointments as that's another problem i see and talking to staff it's a daily issue. I don't pretend to have the answers to the problems the NHS faces beyond the obvious ones but hopefully we will get someone that does have some if not most answers but that isn't jeremy hunt as low standard as many of our politicians are he's managed to set the bar lower everytime it counts.
RizzyKing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2017, 19:15   #90
martyh
Guest
 
Location: newcastle upon tyne
Services: Sky Q silver bundle Sky Q 2TB box Sky Q mini box Sky fibre unlimited Sky Talk evenings and week
Posts: n/a
Re: Crisis in the NHS

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre View Post
I wouldn't support it. I don't think that many people would.

Doesn't matter how much money you throw at it, it will never be enough the way it is currently run.

It needs to be completely re-imagined.
Completely agree with this .I would accept a hike in tax to pay for the NHS but only if the whole system was reworked ,otherwise it's just a waste of money



Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramrod View Post
Trouble is that the liberal establishment has spent the last 20 or so years brainwashing people that the state should be responsible for more and more aspects of their lives and their wellbeing. It's not hard to see why more are now going to A&E or trying to see their GP for minor problems.
I think there's a lot of truth in this .government micro-management of society has taught a lot of people ,especially the younger generations that they must go to the doctors for every single little ache and pain ,every part of our diet is monitored with almost weekly updates of what is good or bad for us and media coverage of the latest cancer causing food sends people straight to the doctors .
  Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:24.


Server: xenon.zmnt.net
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions Inc.