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Crisis in the NHS
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Old 08-01-2017, 11:17   #31
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Re: Crisis in the NHS

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Originally Posted by Mick View Post
Again, like Mr K, you're bringing in an argument that did not exist, yes we need the skilled migrants, but I said about the migrants that come here from other EU nations, who DONT work and just milk the system and the NHS, we don't need those and there are many of them, I'm not going to be so gullible and accept what some parliamentary report says.
Nobody said we did want then .The issue is you are blaming "foreign freeloaders" your words ,and a very all encompassing phrase that is meaningless.Facts simply do not support your assertions that "foreign freeloaders" are to blame.The reasons are many and varied with "foreign freeloaders"playing a very small part .What about home grown freeloaders ,falling tax intake ,aging population,obesity,

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I'm not going to be so gullible and accept what some parliamentary report says.
You mean it doesn't agree with your assertions so it's wrong
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Old 08-01-2017, 11:28   #32
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Re: Crisis in the NHS

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Originally Posted by Mick View Post
Again, like Mr K, you're bringing in an argument that did not exist, yes we need the skilled migrants, but I said about the migrants that come here from other EU nations, who DONT work and just milk the system and the NHS, we don't need those and there are many of them, I'm not going to be so gullible and accept what some parliamentary report says.
You were perfectly happy to link to Full Fact just posts ago....
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Old 08-01-2017, 11:32   #33
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Re: Crisis in the NHS

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Originally Posted by Damien View Post
You were perfectly happy to link to Full Fact just posts ago....
Yes I was. And ?
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Old 08-01-2017, 11:47   #34
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Re: Crisis in the NHS

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Originally Posted by Mick View Post
Yes I was. And ?
Why do you trust them when it backs your argument and not when it doesn't?

But even the article you linked to doesn't back your initial assertion that:

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If you want to blame the reason the NHS is in the state it is, blame the foreign freeloaders, which this government is now doing something about by introducing passport checks, to ensure people who are not entitled to free healthcare while visiting here, now pay for it.
£1.8billion would help the NHS but it's far from the reason it is in the state it is. As I said even dealing with binge drinking cost a lot more.
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Old 08-01-2017, 11:55   #35
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Re: Crisis in the NHS

Strange that they keep saying there is a shortage of available staff to employ, but somehow large sums of money would solve that non-existence.
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Old 08-01-2017, 12:03   #36
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Re: Crisis in the NHS

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Originally Posted by Damien View Post
Why do you trust them when it backs your argument and not when it doesn't?
Trust who and at what other time have I said I do/don't trust them ?

Quote:
But even the article you linked to doesn't back your initial assertion that:
It most certainly does Damien, over 2 billion quid being spent, is a lot of money on people that don't even live here !



Quote:
Originally Posted by Damien
£1.8billion would help the NHS but it's far from the reason it is in the state it is. As I said even dealing with binge drinking cost a lot more.
And that needs to be dealt with, no argument there, but we need to deal with foreign free loaders as well.
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Old 08-01-2017, 12:25   #37
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Re: Crisis in the NHS

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Originally Posted by Mick View Post
Trust who and at what other time have I said I do/don't trust them ?
.
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I'm not going to be so gullible and accept what some parliamentary report says.
Here

Quote:
It most certainly does Damien, over 2 billion quid being spent, is a lot of money on people that don't even live here !
Hold on ,the NHS has always been available for everyone to get emergency treatment even if they don't live here .The other point you seem to conveniently avoid is that a lot of these health tourists are actually British ex pats who have moved and live abroad but return to use the NHS .

Quote:
And that needs to be dealt with, no argument there, but we need to deal with foreign free loaders as well.
Including the British ones? or just the ones you don't like ?

---------- Post added at 12:25 ---------- Previous post was at 12:23 ----------

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Originally Posted by nomadking View Post
Strange that they keep saying there is a shortage of available staff to employ, but somehow large sums of money would solve that non-existence.
Presumably they mean trained staff and the extra money is to train the extra staff and possibly bring them to this country
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Old 08-01-2017, 12:30   #38
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Re: Crisis in the NHS

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Originally Posted by nomadking View Post
Strange that they keep saying there is a shortage of available staff to employ, but somehow large sums of money would solve that non-existence.
Precisely what I was thinking.
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Old 08-01-2017, 12:52   #39
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Re: Crisis in the NHS

Well Mrs K is on the front line in the NHS. It's is a deeply unattractive place to work at the moment, staff are leaving in droves. Not enough of everything - time/resources etc., and a public who seem to take it for granted and resent those that have come from abroad to treat them.

She's been to several leaving events for colleagues escaping over the last few months. Most of them junior Dr's who see better working conditions in places like Australia. Under-investment is an issue, but the conditions and recognition we give those who work in the NHS is another. Treating Junior Drs like striking miners wasn't the cleverest move; true the strike is over, but there are better offers elsewhere, so they are just leaving. There is a grand privatisation plan and the NHS is being deliberately run into the ground to make that acceptable to the public. However privatisation won't help if there aren't enough qualified staff left in the country.
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Old 08-01-2017, 13:03   #40
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Re: Crisis in the NHS

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Originally Posted by martyh View Post
Hold on ,the NHS has always been available for everyone to get emergency treatment even if they don't live here .The other point you seem to conveniently avoid is that a lot of these health tourists are actually British ex pats who have moved and live abroad but return to use the NHS .
r just the ones you don't like ?

Presumably they mean trained staff and the extra money is to train the extra staff and possibly bring them to this country
So how many ex-pats are returning?

How many years does it take to train staff? If they're complaining of a lack of qualified staff, then they are looking as they already have the money to employ them.
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Old 08-01-2017, 13:13   #41
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Re: Crisis in the NHS

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Originally Posted by Mr K View Post
Well Mrs K is on the front line in the NHS. It's is a deeply unattractive place to work at the moment

She's been to several leaving events for colleagues escaping over the last few months. Most of them junior Dr's who see better working conditions in places like Australia. Under-investment is an issue, but the conditions and recognition we give those who work in the NHS is another. Treating Junior Drs like striking miners wasn't the cleverest move; true the strike is over, but there are better offers elsewhere, so they are just leaving. There is a grand privatisation plan and the NHS is being deliberately run into the ground to make that acceptable to the public. However privatisation won't help if there aren't enough qualified staff left in the country.
Allowing open borders to unskilled / benefit scrounging EU migrants will not solve that problem, at all will it?

Mr Hunt has much to answer for, many want him gone and were very surprised Mrs. May kept him on as Health Secretary in her Cabinet reshuffle.
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Old 08-01-2017, 13:23   #42
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Re: Crisis in the NHS

Yes Jeremy Hunt does have a lot to answer for.

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Last edited by Mick; 08-01-2017 at 14:22. Reason: Added Damien's smaller image.
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Old 08-01-2017, 13:28   #43
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Re: Crisis in the NHS

Can we reduce that image please Denphone - it's a good one, but it is too big.
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Old 08-01-2017, 13:36   #44
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Re: Crisis in the NHS

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Can we reduce that image please Denphone - it's a good one, but it is too big.
Being a uneducated man could you tell me how to do that Mick.
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Old 08-01-2017, 13:40   #45
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Re: Crisis in the NHS

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Originally Posted by denphone View Post
Being a uneducated man could you tell me how to do that Mick.
Here ya go

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